Does Martial Arts really help?

[tallgeese]

I can't speak for everyone's experience, but being in LE as well, I'd say most fights that I've been involved in have revolved more around an attempted tackle or some form of ugly wrestling attempt by the bad guy. These kinds of scuffles are much more prevalent.

Now, the ones that have involved striking that I've been party to have pretty much started with either a) the bad guy grabbing with the left and swinging with the right, or b) a wild haymaker kind of thing.

I've only seen one kick thrown by a mope, and that was one of them kneeing me in the groin during a scuffle with a domestic suspect, after he had tried to tackle me. It was kind of an after thought.

I think that statistically, things probably break down around those lines, but I'd have to do the research. Having had the chance to be part of this line of work, I'd agree with Kuma, my training in ma has been very useful, on a routine basis in real conflict.

To the original post, I think both strike work and grappling training is important. You might not pull the guy to the ground, but you can sure end up there. Or, maybe it does make more sense to get a bad guy down. Situations are oddly fluid that way. BJJ has been, by my experience, shown to be effective in real situations as well as competition. It's not a magic bullet, but it works well.

The method of training has more to do with how well what you're doing will work on the street than what. Are you training against resistance? Drilling with movement? Addressing defending and attacking spontaneously to spontaneous attack? Do you occasionally look at what you're doing with a critical eye towards realism?

Looking at those will impact the usefulness of any ma system greatly. remembering that even done properly with great mindset, things can still happen.

So yes, it's very useful if trained properly.

[Kuma]

I'm a police officer . . . ince there is a huge majority of people out there who don't know how to fight well in the first place so by you training you'll already have a big advantage.

Would those in law enforcement say that, in their experience, the ones you find who resort to bullying and starting fights rely more on brute strength, initimidation (by their attire, loud swearing, size), and maybe knowing just the sucker punch and the front kick?

 

If so, I can see MA training, as Kuma said, as an advantage, important in dealing with an assailant.

 

Most scraps I've been in or seen (Youtube is a great resource for this kind of thing actually, as you can see what others do and learn from their mistakes as well as from their successes), most fights tend to begin with a few roundhouse swings at each other only to result in sloppy wrestling. A few guys I've spoken to who have done some serious time have said high school wrestling skills were often the best tool in your arsenal. The "ground and pound" we see in UFC is also a popular tool in prisonyard fights and bar brawls. If the fight didn't result in a quick KO, it was usually either broken up quickly or the victim was most likely the one to get the worst of it. However, in cases where I've seen or studied about where the victim fought back successfully, the victim often came out on top. It's moreso the fear of acting violent rather than violence itself that seems to be the victim's biggest weakness.

[NightOwl]

1st thought on high kicks: The average person I've seen doesn't protect the head when fighting. Since people don't keep their guards up and don't expect it, a well executed high kick will likely yield at the very least a TKO.

2nd thought: If you miss and get off balance, go too slow, etc you are screwed. Personally I don't have flexibly or speed so I like nice, safe, and low roundhouses.

3rd thought: If you can get an opportunity- it's a risk/reward situation. If you are an expert kicker I don't see why not. But unless you are an expert I wouldn't recommend it. An expert like...HWANG JANG-LEE http://www.kungfucinema.com/hwang-jang-lee-1362 . If you try and take on a knife fighter armed with nothing but your fists and your nikes your personal mileage may vary.

Final thought: I'm not as vehemently opposed to high kicks as some are. But I would agree that they in general are not nearly as useful as low or mid ranged kicks. Certainly they are overemphasized many times in martial arts. TKD is especially known for its high kicking, but under WTF rules you don't have to worry about grabs or punches and you are rewarded for kicking high. But that is a situation where what you use in one situation might not be what you use outside the gym.

However I think that once you reach a pro level in mma with thousands of dollars on the line, you are careful about how you use your high kicks just as like you would be guarded about using them in a street fight. Is it the EXACT same? No, but it's still a big risk and if you are willing to risk it on a professional fighter with a quarter year's income in the balance, then kicking some drunk attacking you for looking at him wrong in the head might not be that big of a deal.

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On if martial arts can be useful in real life? I know a hapkido practitioner who has taken out multiple people at a time in street fights using his martial arts training...many times. But do I think that hapkido as many practice it will make everyone into Jakie Chan? No. You fight how you train and this guy was/is a true master who trains like a machine. In fact my personal opinion is that unless you have aliveness in training (as a good portion of MAs don't) the likelihood that what you train in will translate to actual fighting is slim.

Thus most martial arts are not useful beyond providing exercise/general enjoyment in my opinion. Note I didn't say styles- if you have one guy training muay thai statically and one guy training eagle claw kung fu with aliveness on a regular basis; my money is on the eagle guy as the better fighter in real life. In other words training is generally more important than substance. Thus an 'unskilled' brawler who has 'trained' by getting in fights constantly will have an edge over a cardio kickboxer who knows techniques but can't apply them in a live situation.

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Of course this raises the question of why martial arts are so popular in the first place. If they are generally not useful wouldn't they have gone away? My thought is not necessarily.

Historically speaking, martial arts are a a somewhat niche activity. Back in the day if a martial artist couldn't fight in real life, they either died or got publicly humiliated by loosing in a fight. In other words, what worked and who could use it were weeded out from those who couldn't simply by survival of the fittest. Starting a new martial arts style? Great. Now Chen down the street is angry about you taking away his students and is challenging you to a lei tai match (good luck!). As such who wants to get hurt and risk injury by fighting? It's much easier to take up another sport or game and avoid that barbaric 'martial arts' business all together. Thus when people are in a time where martial arts training is rough and constantly tested, you don't nearly have as many people signing up to get black eyes to bring to work the next day.

Now however martial arts are more widespread and popular than ever. What was once mostly practiced by the military, the athletic, and a small segment of society now has its own separate book in the yellow pages. Go to any strip mall and it is likely that you'll find at least one martial arts joint. But look closer and you'll see that most of the customers are middle class suburbanites. These people have jobs, families, school, and many other activities that they are involved in and require attention outside of martial arts. Also they will very likely never face violence on a regular basis, and as such if what they are training works or not is highly irrelevant. In the meanwhile they can get the feeling of safety and power by doing martial arts without needing to go through the often painful and difficult process of refining it through rough training. Thus since Martial arts schools can make you feel like a deadly weapon without needing to prove it nowadays, for many that is good enough to take it up. Thus martial arts schools no matter how poor can stay in business.

[bushido_man96]

Kicks to the groin, boxing like punches, kicks to the shin. Add MT rounds, the off side kick now and again. The occasional "other" tactic....

Sounds exactly like ma to me.

I agree. If you use it in a fight, then it is an "MA" move. A lot of MA techniques might be a bit stylized, and some are downright fancy. But, at the heart of all of them, is an efficient technical base that can maximize the power and delivery of damage.

I'm a police officer and I get to utilize my MA training almost weekly. I can definitely say that yes it works, since there is a huge majority of people out there who don't know how to fight well in the first place so by you training you'll already have a big advantage.

I agree with this assessment, as well. All of that training will make you better, and will help you out. Of course, the most valuable training that you does comes from partner drilling with these techniques.

[sensei8]

Would martial arts really help in a fight? a one on one?

Sure it does! And when that fails; use whatever to survive! Use a truck, use a car, use a bat, use a stick, use your teeth, use everything and anything within your means, after that, when the opportunity arrives...RUN!!!!