Taekwondo's Shotokan connection.

[bushido_man96]

How many are familiar with TKD's connection to Shotokan Karate? If you follow anything from the WTF side, I never read anything about its relation to Shotokan Karate. However, in both General Choi's Encyclopedia, and in Stuart Anslow's book Chang 'On Taekwon-do Hae Sul, there is mention of TKD's connection to the Karate style. However, I don't think that many of the 1st or 2nd generation masters are very willing to discuss this connection.

Any thoughts on TKD's Shotokan connection?

[IcemanSK]

I think it's important to talk about the connection that most (yet not all) the original Kwans have to Shotokan. I'm a Kukkiwon (WTF) black belt but acknowledge Shotokan because of the connection I keep to my Chung Do Kwan roots. It would be hard to acknowledge Chung Do Kwan without mentioning the founder, Lee, Won Kuk, was trained in Shotokan in Japan.

Since the WTF's blending of the kwans, history has been easily re-written to say that TKD is 2,000 years old & only has Korean origins.

[bushido_man96]

Very cool, Iceman. I too think that it is good to acknowledge the heritage of TKD coming from Shotokan.

According to Anslow, General Choi reached the rank of 2nd dan in Shotokan, which at the time was considered to be quite a feat. There are rumors that state that Choi learned directly from Funakoshi, but there is not much factual evidence to prove this.

I am going to be re-reading some research on this topic, and posting more info as I go along.

[bushido_man96]

Here is a website that shows some of the lineages of various masters: http://jerrygalloway.com/tma/tmahistory.htm

In Black Belt Magazine, V 46, N 1 (January 2008), there is an article by Robert McLain interviewing Kim Soo. Kim Soo was a former Korea correspondent for Black Belt. Soo enrolled in the Chang Moo Kwan under Lee Nam-sok. He also knew that Lee learned Yoon Byung-in. Soo would often research at the bookstores as much as he could, because everyone was pretty quiet about where they learned their Martial Arts. In 1958, he found a book written by Toyama Kanken in 1953 in Japan, and the book listed Yoon Byung-in as a 4th dan. The chart on the website denotes a Shudokan lineage here.

[DWx]

In this TKD Times interview (Jan 200), Gen Choi says he studied under Funakoshi whilst at university in Japan.

I can't remember where I saw it but I once read an article comparing the Chang Hon patterns to Shotokan forms. If you look through them there are some nearly identical combinations across the two. It would make sense that some of the orignal Kwan members studied some form of Karate under the Japanese occupation.

[bushido_man96]

Yes, there are parts of the Shotokan and Chang 'On forms that do mirror each other.

I have picked up some interesting tidbits from a 3-part article called TKD: An Historical Appraisal. Apparently, the Chung Do Kwan dojang opnened in Seoul in 1944. I get the impression that this was the frist Kwan to open in Korea. Five more Kwans opened between '44 and '46. Then, in the '50s, Choi's attempts to standardize the Kwans under one banner began. There was resistance to this by some (Hwang Kee comes to mind), but by '59, kwa-jang-nims were forced to comply or be driven from their schools and even Korea.

[bushido_man96]

I may have to purchase that TKDTimes back issue. There may be some interesting stuff in there, to compare with my other research.

[bushido_man96]

Referring back to the TKD Historical Appraisal article, the author does end up alluding to the Bodhidharma myth, which is very undocumented in and of itself. However, he also alludes to Alexander the Great's conquests as far as India, and his army's practice of Pankration, and a possible connection to some of the Oriental styles.

[bushido_man96]

There are several sections in Gen. Choi's encyclopedia that lead into the discussion of the history of TKD. He makes allusions to the ever-popular knights of ancient Korea, Hwa Rang(do). In the section, he denounces the Bodhidharma myth, but then turns around and attempts to propogate the idea that some of the Korean fighting styles may have been exported to Japan.

Choi also makes a statement about an ancient school of warriors referred to as the Yoo Sul school could be familiar with what is now Jujitsu was known under the name of Soo Bak-gi or Taek Kyon. However, I fail to see how if Soo Bak-gi is familiarized as Taek Kyon, which was known to be a kicking game, and how it could be related to Jujitsu. There just seems to be too many variables here; too many inconsistencies.

[DWx]

There are several sections in Gen. Choi's encyclopedia that lead into the discussion of the history of TKD. He makes allusions to the ever-popular knights of ancient Korea, Hwa Rang(do). In the section, he denounces the Bodhidharma myth, but then turns around and attempts to propogate the idea that some of the Korean fighting styles may have been exported to Japan.

Choi also makes a statement about an ancient school of warriors referred to as the Yoo Sul school could be familiar with what is now Jujitsu was known under the name of Soo Bak-gi or Taek Kyon. However, I fail to see how if Soo Bak-gi is familiarized as Taek Kyon, which was known to be a kicking game, and how it could be related to Jujitsu. There just seems to be too many variables here; too many inconsistencies.

Stricly speaking Subak isn't exactly the same as Tae Kyon. From what I understand, Subak was a parent style that split into a Tae Kyon kicking element and a Yoo Sul Juijitsu style. So there could be some truth in Choi's words. The Hwarang were supposed to have employed Subak as their method of unarmed fighting.

Maybe some Korean styles were exported. Particularly during the days of the Three Kingdoms and after the unification Korea was pretty powerful. And each of the Three Kingdoms themselves had allies in China and Japan. For example, I think it was the Silla dynasty that was allied to the Chinese Tang dynasty.

One thing when reading anything written in TKD early days is that they were very anti-Japan / pro-Korea so Choi probably exaggerated the influence of certain factors such as the Korean side of the history compared the Japanese influence.