Different styles of karate

[Zanshin]

And about style.. when I'm playing Chess, it's not the same as Checkers? I can't imagine having the guts to even ask if I could keep my belt. I once trained in a Dojo from an other style, I wore my white belt. As well for a seminar in Daito ryu when I still did aikibudo, I wore my white belt. I just can't understand such mentality.

I agree with AJ here.

Even within the same style of Karate, different groups have variations in syllabus from one and other.

We have recently had two 4th Kyus join our club from another Wado association here in the uk (more of a fringe wado group really). Whilst their "generic" karate is not too bad, they are unfamiliar with the kata and in particular the pair work that is required in order to be a 4th Kyu in our group.

So how can they be a 4th kyu in our group, they cant.

Plus also, as has been said here before, there is something to be said about walking into a new dojo with a beginners state of mind (no baggage).

When I have the spare time I attend a Daito ryu and Kenjutsu club near me, have been for a while now, but I wear my white belt (well my iaiobi also has blue in it) and I am perfectly happy to do so.

On another wado e-group that I belong to, one of the members had an excellent way (I think) of integrating kyu and dan grades from other groups into his association as follows:

Kyu grades are allowed to keep their previous rank (and belt) for 6 months, after which they can apply to take an examination in any grade they wish. If they fail however, the examiners will award them the grade they think most suitable.

They do the same with Dan grades but give them a year to keep their belt, before they are allowed to apply to grade.

I think thats just about the fairest way you can do this, as its recognizes natural ability, but at the same time gives a new group member time for the "particulars" of the school syllabus to bed in.

Z

[Wado-AJ]

Ah ok, it does change things...

In my dojo it is:

9th kyu: white (you get it when you start training)

8th kyu: yellow

7th kyu: 0range (so that is one year training, every half year exam)

6: green

5: blue 1

4: blue 2

3: brown 1

2: brown 2

1: brown 3

I know some dojo who give their new students a suit including white belt. And then after half a year of training he has to do white belt exam! because they don't have 2 blue belts. Its so stupid if you ask me.. It is made to stimulate! By the time they study it for 3 years, they don't care about 2 blue belts, or 3 brown, it is most of the time a challenge. But at the start it is funny to do your white belt exam after half a year, right?

[bushido_man96]

On another wado e-group that I belong to, one of the members had an excellent way (I think) of integrating kyu and dan grades from other groups into his association as follows:

Kyu grades are allowed to keep their previous rank (and belt) for 6 months, after which they can apply to take an examination in any grade they wish. If they fail however, the examiners will award them the grade they think most suitable.

They do the same with Dan grades but give them a year to keep their belt, before they are allowed to apply to grade.

I think thats just about the fairest way you can do this, as its recognizes natural ability, but at the same time gives a new group member time for the "particulars" of the school syllabus to bed in.

Z

I think that this is a fine idea as well. It shows that one is willing to allow for a student from another school to prove themselves, as well as give them time to adapt to the way that the current school does things. The testing scenario is a good one, too.

I like it. Thanks for sharing those ideas, Zanshin.

[moriniuk]

I work away from home quite often and always try to look for a different style of martial arts to train in whilst I'm away. I usually get to attend the school about 4 times. I would say that my original core style is JKA Shotokan. Although I have studied KDS Shotokai regularly for a few years

I have attended schools that teach Wado, Kyokushin, Goju, Asihara, Enshin, WTF Taekwondo and Shorinji Kempo.

This may be a bit controversial but I'd say that they are all basically the same.

I've never had any trouble fitting in the classes. Maybe I don't know all the katas or they're practiced slightly different but basically the stances, kicks, punches and strikes are very similar with only minor technical differences.

Ironically, considering they are so closely related, I found KDS Shotokai to be the most different from JKA Shotokan.

Some schools may have different standards than others, but generally I think it is ok to keep your previous grade.

The China Wushu Association have a good system. They just award dan (duen wei) grades in Wushu irrespective of style because they recognise these similarities between styles.

Surely if somone has studied Shotokan for a number of years and decides to switch styles to Wado, which has its origins in Shotokan. They should at least be allowed to "fast track" and not start from zero.

[joesteph]

They should at least be allowed to "fast track" and not start from zero.

In my art, Soo Bahk Do, there are certain amounts of time to be met at each belt level, and then testing may be done for the next belt level if the instructor believes the student is ready.

However, someone coming from another art need not be held to the time schedule. I admit I haven't discussed this with my instructor, but someone could be coming from a closely-related art, Tang Soo Do. Skipping the disagreements that occurred in the past between the two, the regional examiner can work with the instructor in the dojang where the new student is practicing, in order to facilitate a smooth transition.

I couldn't say about another Korean art, such as Tae Kwon Do, or an Okinawan/Japanese one, such as Isshinryu. I did find out that the Tae Kwon Do of Grandmaster Son has hyungs interpreted from the Pinan/Pyung Ahn series that Grandmaster Hwang Kee incorporated into Soo Bahk Do, and the basic katas of Isshinryu (so a fellow student who had studied Isshinryu when much younger told me) are very similar to the basic hyungs of my art. Related styles likely drink from the same well.

I wonder if someone with a dan ranking in a related art would definitely be placed on a "fast track," while someone below dan ranking might or might not start from white belt. It could even be that it's not up to the chief instructor in the dojang, but someone higher up the food chain in the organization.

[Wa-No-Michi]

Surely if somone has studied Shotokan for a number of years and decides to switch styles to Wado, which has its origins in Shotokan. They should at least be allowed to "fast track" and not start from zero.

I would say that fast tracking is an option (depending on the Students ability). I don't know about other styles, but in my experience Shotokan students (as per your axample) find it hard to adjust to Wado particularly at Dan grade.

On the surface, Wado looks "similar" to Shotokan, but underneath it works using a different set of principles.

I think this could be the same with many arts. At a junior level, they are pretty comparable to other styles, but these similarities begin to disappear the more advanced your study becomes.

[tallgeese]

I think advanced understanding in combative will probibly "fast track" someone almost automatically if test are held when a person is ready. Espically if arts are similar.

I've had guys come into my classes who were excellet boxers. There's not much I can teach them about strking with the hands. Some exposition on how to transition and then your off spending more time with them on aspects that they don't have. Hence, your time tabel in automatically accleerated.

An exceptoin will probibly occur when it's a radically different art. A joint art if you come from only a strking background ect. A weapons art if you've never done weapons, that kind of thing.

Personally, I never make guys were a lower belt color than they have already been awarded elsewhere. They got it, they should be respected for it. It's a belt in that art, however, and I rank them from my first level on up. Once they reach that equevilacy then they can use the new belt. It's all farily hypothetical on my end, we rarely wear uniforms. But the prinicple is there and it's been done that way before.

Everyone's gonna be differernt on this, even within arts. I don't think that there is really a right or wrong answer for it, just the one that is in effect at whatever club you end up at.

[Wa-No-Michi]

In most traditional schools of Karate, the criteria for awarding belts is governed by a students ability to adequately attain standards within a defined syllabus.

In other words, if you are a first Dan in Kyokushin, and you want to be considered to be a first Dan in Shotokan, you not only have to have the same technical ability to punch kick and fight etc, you also have to have the same knowledge of the schools syllabus ie Kihon, Renraku-Waza, Solo and Paired Kata etc.

If you dont know and therefore cant perform "Empi" kata in accordance with the way the school wants it done, how can you hold claim to a first Dan within that particular school / association - you can't.

I know that If was a 2nd Kyu brown belt say, and a fella from another style walked in and was declared a Dan grade I would be pretty hacked off with my instructor.

Belts are defined by schools / associations at the end of the day, not styles. If your school has no structured syllabus I guess there is no reason why a Karate-ka from another style / group / art couldn't be given permission to wear whatever belt they wanted.

[tallgeese]

I'm not talking about instant promotion. Just saying that with certain proficiencies already established, it's easier to move people thru quicker. That's all. Specifics will have to be learned of course, but that learning should be acclerated if one is already acclimitized to the type of thing your doing.

As for wearin rank on my mat, it's not a declaration that they are bb in the art I teach, simply a decleration that they have acheived that rank elsewhere. They'd still progress thru learning ranks as everyone else, just with different decor so to speak.

[Uechi Kid]

Uechi Ryu here