multiple assailants

[Roys15]

I've been taught all kinds of moves to handle multiple attackers, but recently a practitioner of shotokan(?) told me that if you are attacked by multiple assailants that there is little hope of winning this fight.

Is this a common pessimism or can a trained martial artist hold his own against several attackers?

[tallgeese]

Yeah, your chance of coming out on top in this type of altercation are pretty slim.

Does that mean you shouldn't try? Of course not. Does it mean you shouldn' t practice this possible scenario? No, you should be training it from time to time. In fact, given the likelyhood that an assult may very well involve more than one attacker, some serious attention should be give to this training. Just understand the limitations that the bad guys mass in numbers puts on you.

A better mindset for this altercation is survival rather than "winning". When sparring multiple opponants, and yes you should address this in sparring as well as any other form of practice you do, you should include escape as the final step in the fight. We usually designate a door as a goal and the trainee in the middle trys to reach it to effect an escape.

Certain tactics will help you out more than others here. Try to keep the attackers from surrounding you, this is easier said than done of course. Keep moving, never become stationary. Try not to end up on the ground, this is the beginning of the end agaist several attackers that want to hurt you. If you end up there, everything is secondary to acheiving escape. Hit hard and move, preferably in sensitive areas. If joint manipulations are utilized, break the joint as best as can and move on. Don't become embroiled in an effort to maintain or persue a joint position that is not working.

Even with all of this being said, you're odds aren't great against guys who really want to do you in. Set your mind above all else to destroy anyting that gets in range and set aside all else. This will to survive will be your greatest asset and sometimes what attacers lack the least. Really hurt one of their buddies, make the next guy step over his body to get to you...it may make them think twice.

This is ceratinly a situation where moving up your response option chain to higher levels of force is easily justified. Use them if you have to. Consider elevating to a weapon if you have one handy. Even deadly force can be justified here if the attackers are serious enough. Access your knife, gun, or whatever else you may have on your person. If you're carrying these things make sure that above all else you have the will to use them. A close second is making sure that you have adaquate skill with them to deploy them successfully.

So, there are my thoughts. And even after all that, I still think you are waging an uphill battle.

[bushido_man96]

I agree with tallgeese. There aren't many people out there who can take on two guys successfully. Many Martial Artists get a little overconfident with their skills, and assume that dealing with two people is something that they can do with ease. There are just too many assumptions that you can't make in a self-defense situation; one of them is that one technique will drop an attacker. You have to hit the closest one, hit them hard, and hit them often, and be weary of where the others are in relation to your position, and do what you can to get away.

[Montana]

Well, speaking only from my own personal experience, I fought 3 young men (early 20's) that attacked me (I was in my mid-30's) and the fight consisted of one badly bloodied (maybe broken?) nose from a fast reverse punch (assailant #1), one loss of breath from a snap kick to the gut (assailant #2), and assailant #3 looked at his two friends on the ground, then at me, and decided he didn't want to play alone with me.

I helped #3 get his friends in their car, and that was that. The whole "fight" lasted less than 5 seconds from the time assailant #1 made his aggressive move on me.

Me - 3

Assailants - 0

I also know a long time instructor that had to fight 5 men that attacked him, and he successfully defended himself with nothing more than a few bruises.

In my opinion, if the system you are training in isn't training you how to handle multiple opponents, then it's time to find another system, or take up long distance running or badmiton. There are very successful tactics and strategies designed for how to handle multiple opponents...none of which include running away or going to the ground (unless you have no other option).

[DWx]

From a self defense perspective, defense against multiple attackers is IMO something everyone should cover in some way. From about blue/red belt we require students to demonstrate 2-onto-1 sparring which then progresses into greater numbers the higher the grade.

Tallgeese's advice is good. Some things I would add though is that with multiple attackers you have to be very aware of your surroundings, probably even more so than you have to be against one attacker. Probably the worst senarios are when you are surrounded or backed into a corner. When practicing multiple attacker defense I try to keep control of my and my attackers' positioning even if I'm not attacking by trying to manoeuvre them one behind each other. Also don't try to go between them unless you can attack both sides at once (which is risky) its much better to circle off and go around rather than through.

As a kid one thing my dad used to tell me was go for the biggest one there and then that will scare the rest off. It worked in about the only real self defense situation I've ever been in but I was about 8 at the time and my "attackers" were a group of teenage boys. I guess showing the rest of the group who's boss is good as it seemed to work for you Montana.

[tallgeese]

Stratigies and tactics, Montana, yes several good ones have been devised given the circumstance. Should you be training on them, of course.

Just realize the uphill nature of the problem your facing. Mass is a huge equilizer of skill. Espically if the mindset of the opponants you face is to signifigantly injure you.

I tend to agree with bushido man here, we sometimes get a little carried away with what we expect out of our skill. I am no exception to this rule either, so I'm not pointing fingers. It's important to occassionally re-evaluate our expectations against reality.

In your case, fantastic job. I would caution to be careful of success in this case. Succeeding beyond expectations can often lead to a false sense of what we are able to accomplish. Again, I'm taking nothing away from your victory. I'm just saying that there are alot of varialbes involved here, change one or two and the outcome could have been very different. The same statement is probibly true of any number of encounters that I or anyone else been involved with.

My point is simply that one can't take situations like these lightly.

[Throwdown0850]

I've been taught all kinds of moves to handle multiple attackers, but recently a practitioner of shotokan(?) told me that if you are attacked by multiple assailants that there is little hope of winning this fight.

Is this a common pessimism or can a trained martial artist hold his own against several attackers?

It is probably pretty slim, but, there is only one way to find that out and that is by actually doing it.. Practice a REALISTIC 3 or 5 man Randori... That could prob help your chances of getting out with minimal injury...

[The BB of C]

I've been taught all kinds of moves to handle multiple attackers, but recently a practitioner of shotokan(?) told me that if you are attacked by multiple assailants that there is little hope of winning this fight.

Is this a common pessimism or can a trained martial artist hold his own against several attackers?

A lot of martial arts teach multi-directional combos for multiple attackers or they teach that against multiple attackers you should keep all of them in front of you and then train you how to do that.

I believe it's difficult but entirely possible for anyone to come out of any bad scinario such as against weapons or several people or heck several people with weapons. Many styles have been designed for it and battle tested and proven to work. Otherwise they wouldn't be along. Even Aikido. If you look it up, people say that "Aikido was forged in sword culture, and in sword culture, it was very rarely a one-on-one situation."

Before I started training I was in a situation against five people and I almost won. I held my own for quite some time and then fended them off enough so I could escape because at the time I had no training (and was wearing heavy boots that prevented kicking) so I didn't know how to knock anyone out.

If I went back to that situation now, I would have dispatched all five of them.

Even in present day, I get messed with a lot at work for being "the karate kid" and I've had to fight off two or three co-workers at a time. Given, they are "joking around", but anyone can tell they're still trying a good amount to hit me.

At the end of the day, it's possible, but really hard. Still train for it as much as possible. In the higher advanced stages of some styles, they teach you how to sense people with intention to attack even if they're behind you or your mind is preoccupied.

[G95champ]

You always have a chance but lets be real with each new attacker your odds goes way down lol.

Now the more training you have the better I don't care what style you do or have done.

However, IMO your best hops is to have a striking background because last thing you want is to go to the ground vs more than one attacker.

I too am a shotokan person and our rule is simple

Take out the leader or the biggest most agressive person first and hope the rest realize your a bad cat.

If that don't work run.

If that don't work pray.

[Montana]

One thing I'd like to mention regarding training for multiple attackers is this. Kata is training for multiple attackers. It teaches you to move, shift directions quickly and solidly, attack at various levels and strengths, etc.

In my fight against the 3 (I call them the 3 stooges), they were lined up 1-2-3 in front of me with the leader (or the only one that did the talking anyway) on my far left. His attack (which I was ready for from what we call a natural stance) was to bring his arm back to swing in a classic haymaker punch. When I hit him square in the nose, his right hand was still behind his head winding up. The 2nd guy (in the middle) took a step towards me, and that's when I kicked him in the stomach and dropped him.

The fight last really only a few seconds, and I had the shakes from the adrenaline rush for several minutes afterwards. I went to the police station after they drove off and filed a report (CYA) in case this fight came back to haunt me, which it never did. The police said I did the right thing filing a report first, before they did.

I learned a couple of important lessons in this fight.

1. Hit hard and hit fast and accurately.

2. Don't assume a threatening posture when in a fight situation.

3. The element of surprise is your friend!

4. Report to the police immediately after the incident and press charges against the attackers (yes, even if YOU won the fight!)