Juniors with high grades

[DWx]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/other_sports/7228622.stm

What's everyone's opinion on something like this? Leaving aside the question on whether juniors should receive blackbelts or not in the first place, should they be allowed to attain a relatively high rank at a young age?

I'm a bit divided on this one. I was a bit skeptical when I saw the kid was 16 as it does seem really young. Yet on the other hand, the kid could be amazing and having trained for a decade more than deserves it. In my system, if you grade at appropriate intervals it is perfectly acceptable to attain 3rd degree within 10 years of training.

Also, what's the youngest higher grade you've trained with?

[Throwdown0850]

Personally, I dont like it... I guess its okay to have a BB BUT, I would not even come close to letting him teach... I would not want to learn anything from a kid....

[marie curie]

I think it really depends on the kid- I knew a brown belt 12-year-old (about 3 years younger than me) who was one of the best teachers as far as basics and early forms went in my first school. She was incredibly mature, from a family of 6 martial artists in my school (Mom, Dad, and 3 brothers), and was very dedicated. I've also known tons of kids with way higher ranks/responsibilities than I think they were prepared to handle.

The problem with this is if there is a general rule "don't promote beyond this rank until this age", people who are prepared may be unnecessarily held back and become bored. The way it is now, people get promoted too early, so it's kind of a trade off, I think.

[tallgeese]

I'm inclined to agree with throwdown, I don't like it. Let me put a disclaimer on that, I don't like it if the black belt is graded the same as an adult black belt. If there is a some sort of "junior" rank then I'm fine with it.

In our system, we use a -jutsu suffex at the end of the name. For the kids, I use a -do suffex denoting kind of junior rank. If one then wants to rank as an adult, they can test throught he justsu system, picking up the more combative aspets as they go. They have quite a bit in common so the transition should be relitively natural. For seriously young students, like my daughter (she'd be in a "little dragons" program if she went to the school I help at), I don't even use belt ranks. It's all on a "stripe" system. If she acheives a black stripe after a few years, she can be old enough to start working the material to earn belts in the -do side of the system I train in. Ect, ect,....

Bear in mind that this is largely theoretical for me at this time, all my students train out of my basement and are all adults and primarily cops. Only one or two are even concerned with being ranked at all. And my 4 year old who is working very hard for her yellow stripe .

I'm not trying to be elitist with the rank, but there are just certain things that probibly shouldn't be taught to kids. Do you really want to run the risk that someone has a hormal moment at school and side stomp another kids knee to the floor? Some of this stuff just requires emotional maturity that I'm not certain that any 12 year old has, not thorgh any fault of their own, but simly their changing chemistry.

Just my thoughts.

[bushido_man96]

Well, the article stated that he would be teaching younger kids classes at this point. I don't have a problem with this; so long as he is supervised by an adult.

As far as the rank thing goes, I usually don't put much thought into this. If it were my school, would I allow someone this age to achieve this rank? I don't know for sure. Maybe not, but at what age is it ok?

[ninjanurse]

Being a good teacher (or black belt for that matter) does not come from age. I know plenty of adult black belts that cannot teach even the most simple of concepts...and I know plenty of low ranking kids and teens that blow many adults out of the water when it comes to understanding and communicating technique. There is no magical ability that comes from tying on a black belt...not everyone can teach, and not everyone has the character it takes to fulfill the requirements of the rank.

I would gladly learn from anyone who is able to teach me something and I would never be so arrogant to presume that my rank (or age) makes me a better person than anyone else. It's the product that matters not the delivery system.

That being said....I am all for Junior Black Belt Ranks as there are physiological and psychological differences in those under 16-18 that demand prudence in what is taught and expected of the body. But, you can not compare a 12 year old to a 24 year old, only to another 12 year old. In any instance, instructors must use caution when selecting any student, regardless of age, to hold any rank and/or teach.

[marie curie]

I would gladly learn from anyone who is able to teach me something and I would never be so arrogant to presume that my rank (or age) makes me a better person than anyone else. It's the product that matters not the delivery system.

Well said NijaNurse I think you've hit the nail on the head as far as worthy juniors go.

[shujika]

As stated by others, skill at teaching doesn't come from age, but experience counts for a heck of a lot more (in both teaching methods, and life), and just how much experience does a 16yr old have? (very little). If they're teaching other youths, fine (accompanied by adult supervision) I would have no problem with that. It can be bad enough with adults who get a “god” complex when becoming a MA instructor, with a teen, the potential is much higher (hence, the “supervision”) The liability factor alone should limit any “store front” school from allowing an “unsupervised' youth from being a “solo” instructor. The youth may be very skilled (physically) and may be able to do many a physical feat with ease. This may aid them in teaching other youths, but as far as teaching “adults” (whom often need individual physical assistance/guidance which a “youth” cannot relate to or understand) I see NO advantage or point.

[DWx]

I would gladly learn from anyone who is able to teach me something and I would never be so arrogant to presume that my rank (or age) makes me a better person than anyone else. It's the product that matters not the delivery system.

Nicely put.

IMO issues like this are very subjective and personally I find it hard to have a blanket age restriction. I train with a very talented 12 year old who is a 2nd degree and I would consider him better and more knowlegeable than a lot of adults are. I always used to think he was only a few years younger than me as far as his maturity went but it turns out he is a lot younger than I expected. I guess I'm kinda biased as both myself and my younger sister attained blackbelt as a junior and in fact I may have the opportunity to test for 3rd dan before my 18th this year and Natalie has just acheived her 2nd dan at 14. Too young? Maybe. However both of us have taught, albeit not a whole class but I've never known there to be a problem with people receiving instruction from us. In fact often people approach you for advice and instruction.

I'm curious to as when you all consider a person a junior and at what age they become a senior. Especially if they test exactly the same as an adult. In the case of myself and Natalie we both had to do what the adults did. Technique, breaks, thesis... yet because neither of us is 18 yet we don't qualify as a senior and are therefore deemed as lesser.

[brokenswordx]

I think a person (if they're under 18 ) should go through an "intern" period if award a black belt, they can teach and all that jazz, but when they reach 18 they should test again then be given the 1st dan rank.