Kihon Gumite, Oyho Gumite, 2-Mans, 1-step, 3-Step

[Dobbersky]

All,

Why do we have these Kihon Gumite, Oyho Gumite, 2-Mans, 1-steps, 3-Steps in our grading syllabuses in Wado Ryu, Shotokan, ShitoRyu, Goju Ryu, and Kyokushin Etc?

Almost all the techniques practiced in the 2-mans are found in the kata. Why do we have to practice these, when all we need is the Bunkai of each kata?

I ask this as in Ashihara and Enshin there is a Bunkai for each kata, there are no 2-mans just kata Bunkai.

So why therefore isn't traditional karate the same? Why don't we either practice kata Bunkai for each grading etc or just formulate the 2-Mans into their own kata(s)?

I leave it to the forum to advise!

Osu!

[Zanshin]

All,

Why do we have these Kihon Gumite, Oyho Gumite, 2-Mans, 1-steps, 3-Steps in our grading syllabuses in Wado Ryu, Shotokan, ShitoRyu, Goju Ryu, and Kyokushin Etc?

Almost all the techniques practiced in the 2-mans are found in the kata. Why do we have to practice these, when all we need is the Bunkai of each kata?

I ask this as in Ashihara and Enshin there is a Bunkai for each kata, there are no 2-mans just kata Bunkai.

So why therefore isn't traditional karate the same? Why don't we either practice kata Bunkai for each grading etc or just formulate the 2-Mans into their own kata(s)?

I leave it to the forum to advise!

Osu!

Hi Dobbersky,

As was touched on in another thread, the M.O. in terms of how to apply Karate techniques can vary between styles.

So a Goju student will have a different answer to that of a Wado student I think.

As I understand it, the formalised pairwork you refer to is a relatively modern invention. It wouldnt surprise me if it evolved out of the requirement to teach a large number of people how to practice the kata techniqes against one and other in a safe way.

As for some of the specific pair work you refer to ie Kihon Gumite and Ohyo Kumite, again I will stand corrected, but I believe I am right in saying that these are unique to Wado.

As I am sure your Wado Instructor has told you, strictly speaking Wado does not use the word "Bunkai" to describe how to understand / apply the techniques found in Kata. Instead traditional Wado schools tend to refer to this as "Kaisetsu" or physical explanation. Typically this is done in its classical form without deviation (i.e. the way it appears the kata).

My thinking (at present at least) is that the traditional Okinwan arts use the process of "Bunkai" ie disassembling the component parts. You can only do this though if you have a good level of understanding as to what the techniques are in the first place. After which you can then work on the potential variants in terms of how to apply those techniques and principles to a real situation.

Generally speaking, most Wado Dojos don’t do that, although at my dojo we do sometimes have a bash at this and its good fun, and healthy, I’ve got to be honest.

Typically, Wado students will learn how to apply the all of the techniques found in kata along with the principles of movement timing and mindset through the training of paired kata such as ohyo (which also means application) Kihon Gumite, then further up the syllabus idori (methods from kneeling) and Tanto dori (methods against a knife).

So in nutshell, Wado pair work IS our bunkai practice I suppose.

[bushido_man96]

A question for Zanshin: Iain Abernethy is a Wado stylist, I believe, and he uses the terminology "bunkai" extensively. Is he the only Wado stylist that does this?

[Zanshin]

A question for Zanshin: Iain Abernethy is a Wado stylist, I believe, and he uses the terminology "bunkai" extensively. Is he the only Wado stylist that does this?

Hi Bushido,

As far as I understand it, Mr Abernethy's original background was Wado (he was a student of Doug James I believe), however I think he refers to what he teaches today as Bunkai-Jutsu or applied karate.

I haven't seen a lot of it but what I have, seems to make sense. That said, it is not Wado (or at least the Wado approach), but to be fair to him I dont think he claims that it is.

Other Wado groups may use the term Bunkai when actually referring to "kaisetsu", but in reality there is a difference between the two in terms of process.

[bushido_man96]

Thanks for the clarification, Zanshin. I did see the name of the organization he is with, but can't remember it off the top of my head. I did see where he said he practiced the Wado katas, though.

[Dobbersky]

All

Iain Abernethy's Site is https://www.iainabernethy.com

There are some interesting articles etc from Iain and other senior Karateka there

Osu

[Zanshin]

Thanks for the clarification, Zanshin. I did see the name of the organization he is with, but can't remember it off the top of my head. I did see where he said he practiced the Wado katas, though.

Hi Bushido,

Given that his background knowledge in traditional Karate is Wado, it does not surprise me that he uses Wado Katas to explain his applications.

[bushido_man96]

Thanks for the clarification, Zanshin. I did see the name of the organization he is with, but can't remember it off the top of my head. I did see where he said he practiced the Wado katas, though.

Hi Bushido,

Given that his background knowledge in traditional Karate is Wado, it does not surprise me that he uses Wado Katas to explain his applications.

Thanks.