Funakoshi story?

[unknownstyle]

i was told a story about funakoshi being thrown out of the shorin school by itosu for not wanting to fight. i was wondering if anyone has encountered similar stories.

(i mean no disrespect to ant of the shotokan guys here just wanted some answers)

[bushido_man96]

I had not heard that. I am supposed to be receiving a book on Shotokan history sometime; perhaps it will have some information on the story.

[ShoriKid]

I don't know about being tossed out by Itosu, but I've seen in several places that Motobu didn't like him at all. A two sided dislike by all accounts. Funakoshi insulted Motobu's family position and called him uneducated, Motobu put Funakoshi on the spot in front of his students with questions about his fighting ability. So, no love lost there.

[Fish]

If you read Funakoshi's short autobiography (Karate-Do: My Way of Life), he doesn't mention this. But he does say that it was part of his philosophy to avoid fighting. The only actual fight he admits to was when someone tried to mug him and he overcame them pretty swiftly - but then he says he was ashamed that he had used karate against an untrained opponent.

I have also read in histories of Wado Ryu Karate that when Hironori Ohtsuka suggested introducing kumite to karate, Funakoshi was against the idea because he feared that serious injury or death would be the result.

[shitosempei]

Sounds like the opposite of our previous Grand Master , Sensei Ryusho Sakagami (Shito-Ryu Itosu_Kai ). I don't think you'll find it written anywhere , but according to my Sensei , and our current Grand Master , Sakagami would hit the streets late at night in Japan , to test his skills against thugs and gangsters....

[Zanshin]

I had not heard that. I am supposed to be receiving a book on Shotokan history sometime; perhaps it will have some information on the story.

Harry Cook's by any chance?

I would reserve caution with stories such as this as, in the most part, we are unable to destiguish between hard fact and embelishment.

It is well documented that Funakoshi was not "pro" direct combative style "Kumite" in much the same way as Aikido's Morihei Ueshiba, preferring to focus more on techniques that could be practiced safely with the ultimate goal of self improvement or "do".

But I think a lot of that was to make Okinawan Karate more palatable to main land Japan, and who knows what the old boy was really capable of.

Obviously quite a lot, as his Karate is still the most widely practiced Karate in the world. Not bad for an old primary school teacher that can't fight!

Z

[ShoriKid]

Not saying Funakoshi lied about confrontations with Motobu, but you don't put in your published bio another instructor coming into your dojo and, while not challenging, putting you in fight senarios that you can't handle. I'll have to see if I still have the issue of Classic Fighting Arts that had the interview where this came up with another master.

Motobu did advocate sparring, but only between well trained karateka, those who had "mastered the styles"(kata) at which point he felt they cold fight with heavy contact without fear of real injury. Motobu is also one who believed in fighting to see if anything worked. His loved of the inclose fighting technique from the Nahanchi katas is pretty well known.

One other cause of some of the bad blood between them was the screw up of the news papers in japan that ran Funakoshi's photo in an article about a karate master defeating a western(German I believe) heavy weight boxing champ. Because of that mess up, intentional or not, by the writers of the article, Funakoshi apparently recieved a lot of aclaim for an act that Motobu actually did. There was apparently a long running disagreement between the two. As I mentioned, Funakoshi apparently claimed Motobu was uneducated and of a lower class. Motobu didn't speak Japanese, which Funakoshi did and this didn't help him get his side of things out there much while he was on the mainland of Japan.

shintosempei; Motobu had much of the same approach, physically testing his skills in the red-light districts of Okinawa and Japan in his younger days. Apparently he garnered such a reputation as a fighter that when he tried to travel to Hawaii shortly before WWII(I think, could have been right after), he was detained and denied admission onto the islands by authorities. He'd mellowed by his later years...compairitively speaking.

[bushido_man96]

I had not heard that. I am supposed to be receiving a book on Shotokan history sometime; perhaps it will have some information on the story.

Harry Cook's by any chance?

Yes....you still waiting, too?

[ps1]

I've never heard of this. That's not to say it didn't happen. Afterall, I don't think people in a Shotokan school would be talking poorly about the styles founder. You know how it is...history is different depending upon the observer and the person telling the tale.

[G95champ]

Its a new story to me as well.

However, it wouldnot shock me considering Funakoshi was very much anit combat. Based off what I have read and been taught he strikes me as person who would refuse to spar to prove a higher point of karate training.