Black Belt Testing Overated ?

[pama4242]

My personal opinion is that they tend to have you go thru so many hoops to get a black belt, also cost issues. I also think that after about 8 yrs. training you should be able to figure out a lot of your own answers, as instructors don't want to go in depth, besides some of the level one techniques. I'm talking about kata. Also Martial arts can be costly, I think that as a beginner it is worth it, but after about 8 yrs. you should just explore with a few fellow partners. you reach a point of dimished returns ,to me after 8 yrs. training 4 times a wk. you are a black belt for sure:)

[NewEnglands_KyoSa]

It sounds like you may be experiencing burn out. But remember black belt is not the be all end all so i don't think you can put a tag of 8 years on it. Also people learn at vastly different rates. There should be some answers you figure out on your own but that only comes after years of training and doing things over and over again until...lightbulb My instructor and i were talking about it the other night when he asked one of the black belts..."when are you going to teach me something???" and the black belt looked at him like...uh...aren't you the teacher??? and him and i just laughed at the poor kid who didn't get it.

And as for going through hoops...of course you have to go through hoops! that's what makes anything in life worth it. The money you save up as a kid to buy your first car, the schooling you go through to get your dream job, the things you do for the woman/man of your dreams...all these things are things that people crave and we go through hoops for them! If black belt is one of those things for you then you should feel like you're going through hoops but at the same time you should feel like ultimately, it was worth it.

If you're not interested in learning a set style and learning it's secrets and theories and ins and outs then create your own style or mess around with training partners. But i find the mystery of knowing that you'll know these theories and secrets someday but you have no idea how you are going to figure them out is awesome. Martial Arts are like a HUGE puzzle. There should be no point of diminished return, but at this point, this supposed 8 years you should be learning and growing more than you ever did before with knowledge you have.

Yes MAs can be pricey because after all, instructors must pay the rent, and for supplies and insurance and paperwork and pay instructors for their services etc. Unless you're paying hundreds of dollars a month i wouldn't worry about the monetical portion of it too much.

[unknownstyle]

o agree you do have to jump through a lot of hoops, my teacher however does not really require that. where most black belt test last hours upon hours mine was only an hour. i dont understand why they make you do half the things they do. so i can see where you can get that view point

[bushido_man96]

Every instructor has a different idea of what the black belt test should be like. Many want it to be something that the students work hard for, so that they know that they earned it. Some think that it is more along the lines of a natural progression, which is ok, too.

The main thing is not to focus on your rank, but what it is you are learning in between ranks. I think that the point of diminishing returns that you address is related more to the physical aspect of the arts. Basically, after we have done a side kick for 8 years, there probably isn't much that is going to change with it in the 9th year. However, as we begin to level of physically, there are many other aspects to look into; strategy, tactics, ideas like de-escalation, and the list goes on and on. There is always something to pick up; it just may not be something new, physically.

[Dobbersky]

Pama4242

Osu!!!

Let me put it this way

You are having an operation say for an appendicitis removal.

The choice of surgeons is one who has trained for 6 years and is a qualified surgeon and one who has trained for 8 years but in yet unqualified.

Who will you pick to do the surgery?

I know whom I would pick!!!!

Shodan is not about how much time you put in; it’s about how you are as a Karateka. As I have stated before, a Blackbelt doesn't make the KarateKa, it’s the KarateKa that makes the Blackbelt. All Shodan is just the beginning of the journey; it is just a test to show that you know all the basics etc. sometimes in may feel like an anticlimax only because you have worked so dammed hard to pass it.

I hope this helps you, as only you can decide.

[tori]

I guess I am somewhat confused in your statements pama. Are you a new student that is looking down the road that you are about to take, or someone who has gotten to black belt and are unimpressed with the journey you took?

For some people getting a black belt is the ultimate goal. For others, rank is of no interest to them. For some, black belt is only the beginning. There are no right or wrong answers, just good or bad attitudes.

If you are a new student and are not impressed, try something else. If you are a student who has been there for awhile, take a break and reevaluate what you really want to do with your training. You deserve it.

[ShoriKid]

At 8 years or so, you can seperate from an instructor if you want. But, if you begin to think that you and some others with about the same level of training can figure it all out, and won't gain a benefit from an instructor/coach, you haven't met good coaches yet. Yes, you can fine tune things and explore the depth of your technique and it's application with a group of people with similiar levels of training. But, you will only preform to the level of your training partners. At some point you either have to expand your circle of training partners or get with someone with more experience and ability. The old guys have had a ton of time to work things out. They have figured out of lot of things, and if your not getting answers, a lot of times it's because your not asking the right questions.

Not saying you can't make good gains when it's you and your peers training together. With them you can explore the things you want to and refine what you feel needs tuned up. Just don't get caught in the trap of thinking that you have ALL of the answers. Always be willing to look to others.

Do you have to progress up a belt ranking? No, you don't. Heck, I was slow advancing, or have been since reaching 1st dan. But, you aren't selling your self respect by sticking with an instructor. You just have to be picky about which ones you stick with. The good ones explain things when your ready to hear and know what sort of questions to ask, and they will have you start getting depth. It may start over with basic techniques, but those should be your bread and butter any way. The basic punches, block sand kicks you learned should be refined and then re-examined once you think you have them down.

Depth is what your after, not bredth, you need the insight of someone who's already been there. It may or not be an instructor that brings that to your training. If it is, cool. If not, seek training else where.

[NewEnglands_KyoSa]

From what is sounds like, you have more than made up your mind. TMA doesn't seem like the path for you. And taking that into consideration, maybe something more sport oriented and less traditional may make you happier, maybe a nice Muy Thai, BJJ, MMA...something more contemporary you know?

Do your own thing, and see how it works. Just don't be afraid to see out help. Because like many others said, the odds of any of us being able to do something like that completely on our own is very slim. Good luck, i hope this works out.

[brokenswordx]

Yes you do go through countless hoops, but each hoop teaches you something. Also MA's can be costly doing a little research doesn't hurt. If you don't like it, don't pay for it. After all it's your money, might as well get top dollar for it.

When you truly train in MA's you train for life, not 8 years. Kata had a funny way of revealing who was actually working on their stances at my dojo since the majority of people tend have made more mistakes on the beginner rank kata than the upper rank ones. The most basic kata was the one that most often kept a person from advancing in rank.

A black belt (or any belt, kyu or dan level) is more that just a rank, it's also how a person carries themselves and interacts with others in and outside the dojo.

[G95champ]

All a black belt means is that you understand the basics. No more no less. There is not magic and ability to walk up walls and throw fire balls sorry.

I think our black belts are very good and needed. I would guess they avg. about 3 hours and the last hour of that is sparring. There is lot ot be said and learned by just completing the test pass or fail.

Once you become a Dan then the learing begins. For us in Shotokan the 2nd Dan basically means you have the ability to teach. You will only truely start to understand the moves when you try and teach them. Teaching opens up many doors in not only karate but anything because it forces you to see the problem or move as somone else does and make you find new ways to understand it.

Now you very well may be in a "macdojo" as they call it where the teacher just drags people along for money but you may not.

Basically you get in what you put in. If you train hard and are over 15 IMO you can bea black belt in 2-3 years. If your younger then its going to take more time. Same as if your older the body and mind just don't work like the body and mindof a teen or person in their 20's and 30's. Sorry but lets call a spade a spade.

Bottom line it may be burnout. It may a mcdojo. Your teacher may not know anymore to teach you. I hope all is not the case but take it from me. I have trained in Shotokan since Feb. of 1993 and I have forgotten way more than I know.