kempocos Posted October 8, 2003 Posted October 8, 2003 when I wrote "Dillman like many others where shown KYUSHO ( PRESSURE POINT STRIKING ) and TUITE ( Joint Manipulation) by Taika Oyata when he first came over from OKINAWA. Dillman then trained for about 1.5 years with him then he started his own version and cranked out a series of books/tape/seminars claiming to have unlocked the secret of KATA" I was stating my understanding of the Dillman/Oyata connection, not where Dillman first learned preassure points. I often hear/read Dillman students stating that Dillman rediscovred the secrects of Karate Kata, this simply not the case. Since Many people have guided him in his teachings of the subject learned would be a better word. "If you don't want to get hit while sparring , join the cardio class"
Matt Stone Posted October 9, 2003 Posted October 9, 2003 I am good friends with one of Taika's students (a yondan who trained directly under Taika for years in KC), and the story I got was similar to that mentioned above regarding the seminar attendance and nothing more. Taika apparently wants so little to do with Dillman that he changed the name of what he teaches... When I first heard of Taika, I knew him to be teaching Ryukyu Kempo. Now, he teaches RyuTe © Karate. He apparently wants to distance himself completely from even inferred association with Dillman. I don't blame him.
Tao Posted October 9, 2003 Posted October 9, 2003 " From Oyata's perspective, the two barely met. " Again I say George ticked off Oyata and he doesn't have anything good to say about George. George did alot more than a couple of seminars with Sensei Oyata, and does nothing but give Oyata credit. I'm not just saying this second hand. Like some others. Nidan Ryukyu Kempo Nidan Kyusho Jitsu Black Sash Wah Lum Gung Fu
Sho-ju Posted October 9, 2003 Posted October 9, 2003 " From Oyata's perspective, the two barely met. " Again I say George ticked off Oyata and he doesn't have anything good to say about George. George did alot more than a couple of seminars with Sensei Oyata, and does nothing but give Oyata credit. I'm not just saying this second hand. Like some others. Isn't that called name dropping? When you really don't know a guy but use his name anyways?
Matt Stone Posted October 9, 2003 Posted October 9, 2003 " From Oyata's perspective, the two barely met. " Again I say George ticked off Oyata and he doesn't have anything good to say about George. George did alot more than a couple of seminars with Sensei Oyata, and does nothing but give Oyata credit. I'm not just saying this second hand. Like some others. Are you saying, then, that you heard this directly from Dillman? And of course, if what has been attributed to Taika Oyata as the true story, Dillman would certainly pony up and say "Sure, all I had were a few seminars." If he did that, his entire empire of color by numbers kyusho would be upended... I'm not saying that, if you are claiming to have heard it from Dillman directly, Dillman lied. However, of the two people (Oyata or Dillman), Dillman has much more to gain by connection to Oyata, or to lose by disassociation from Oyata, than Taika Oyata has to gain or lose in either case. Personally, I don't care what Dillman does or who approves or disapproves of him. The minute he started supporting the "no touch knockout" I lost pretty much any respect I had for him... Sorry, but it's the truth.
Shorinryu Sensei Posted October 9, 2003 Posted October 9, 2003 Grand Master Dillman first learned of pressure point application by Grand Master Hohan Soken. Hohan Soken gave George a dairy of sorts that contained alot of pressure point information that he,his wife Kim, and many of his students (Rick Moneymaker was one of them for some time) had been studying. OK, I'd better get in here and give my 2 cents worth. This is a rather common joke within the Shorinryu Matsumura Seito (Orthodox) community, of which I am a 28+ year member. Dillman claimed origionally that he approached O Sensei Hohan Soken about teaching him the "secrets" of tuitte and pressure points from his sytem (BTW, there are no secrets, just things you haven't learned yet!). According to Dillman, O Sensei Soken apparently, DURING JUST ONE WEEKEND, taught Dillman all of his "secrets". I don't care who you are, you're not going to learn, retain and be able to perform HALF of these techniques in a weekend of training! Now, since I had never met O Sensei before his death in 1983, but I know, and have studied under a number of people that have trained directly with him....every one of them says that if you knew O Sensei and how he thought and taught, you would know that NO MAN ON EARTH could walk into O Sensei's dojo and ask for this information, and actually expect to get it. Whether it was Dillman, Norris, Wallace, Segal, etc. He just didn't do that sort of thing! Sure, if you took classes from O Sensei for many years, you'd learn all of those neat little tricks with the nerves. Several people in this country, including Ken Penland, Ron Lindsey and Greg Ohl, just to name a few, are quite well versed in these techniques, because they lived on Okinawa for many years and studied directly from O Sensei and others under O Sensei. I don't classify myself in with these people...yet! Maybe someday I will, but certainly, not now. OK, that's my 2 cents on the subject...anybody want change back? My nightly prayer..."Please, just let me win that PowerBall Jackpot just once. I'll prove to you that it won't change me!"
Sauzin Posted October 9, 2003 Posted October 9, 2003 " I'm not just saying this second hand. Like some others. I would be interested in hearing your account if you were there. If you are getting your information directly from Dillman, then I have hopes that you would know him well enough to know that he gives slightly different variations depending upon who is in the room and when you catch him. Lately he has become a bit defensive when asked questions about this subject. -Paul Holsinger The only two things that stand between an effective art and one that isn't are a tradition to draw knowledge from and the mind to practice it.
kempocos Posted October 9, 2003 Posted October 9, 2003 nicely put, I want to add that Taika Oyata is one of those people who hold this information. Also unless you train hard for many years with him you will just not be able to have a full understanding of the KYUSHO/TUITE techniques. The DILLMAN worshippers often slam me for such views. I find that Rick Moneymaker has extensive knowledge on this subject. Since I have been associated with him he has not spent anytime discussing " NO TOUCH KNOCKOUTS, KIAI KNOCKOUTS" , rather we have worked on practical applications using TUITE/KYUSHO concepts. "If you don't want to get hit while sparring , join the cardio class"
Tao Posted October 9, 2003 Posted October 9, 2003 "Dillman claimed origionally that he approached O Sensei Hohan Soken about teaching him the "secrets" of tuitte and pressure points from his sytem (BTW, there are no secrets, just things you haven't learned yet!). " "According to Dillman, O Sensei Soken apparently, DURING JUST ONE WEEKEND, taught Dillman all of his "secrets". I don't care who you are, you're not going to learn, retain and be able to perform HALF of these techniques in a weekend of training! " George was competing at a tournament when Sensei Soken aproched George and asked him if he knew what has was doing in his kata's. George said " I'm blocking a kick......"and so on. Hohan then spent ONE weekend teaching George, but did not show him all the "secrets". Hohan kicked the crap out of George showing him a number of techniques and he gave George a book that contained alot of pressure point information that he, his wife, and close students have been working on since. I believe Erle Montague was another to get the same book from Sensei Soken, and has gone in his direction with the same information. I have known George for about 4 years now and have talked to him many times. I just spent a whole weekend training at his dojo in Deerlake Pennsylvania. " he gives slightly different variations depending upon who is in the room" I've heard him speak to many different people many different times and what he says has not changed. No matter if its at a seminar, out at dinner, or in the dojo. " NO TOUCH KNOCKOUTS, KIAI KNOCKOUTS" , rather we have worked on practical applications " True, no touch is not practical now for an agressive situation, but that's why you train in the dojo. To work on techinques over and over till you get it right. I've seen it take over a minute for someone to be knocked out, I've seen it take seconds, and I've seen people completely flop at it. It is not a practical thing to use in a fight at this stage because there can be too many factors to make the technique flop. But, that is why you practice, study, and try to perfect techniques. It's also not something dwelled apon every training session. As I've seen it and tried it, it's once every couple of months we try something.
Sauzin Posted October 9, 2003 Posted October 9, 2003 So how many seminars did he take from Oyata? How many private sessions did he have? What did they discuss or practice in those sessions? So far I have been unable to get specific instances, numbers, and accounts of these things from anyone who has spoken directly with Dillman. I would appreciate it if you could provide them. -Paul Holsinger The only two things that stand between an effective art and one that isn't are a tradition to draw knowledge from and the mind to practice it.
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