Points or submissions?

[Treebranch]

My friend and I went to World Championships and I was his coach or corner man, whatever you call it. We're the only ones at our small school that compete. I didn't compete this time, because I'm still recovering from an injury to my elbow.

Basically my friend entered the competition. We believe that Jiu-jitsu should always be about the submission. You should always go for the submission no matter what. That if you loose going for a submission, then you loose with honor. We feel that sitting on someone and getting the points isn't realistic. Anyway, he got the takedown, he was pulled into guard, he was controlling the fight. I kept telling him to pass, and he saw the opportunity and got caught in an armbar and lost.

Should he have sat and won or lost by trying to get the submission?

Which in the end is the purer of the two?

[bushido_man96]

Well, when you talk about competition, then you can kind of throw ideas of "purity" out the window. In self-defense, it is another matter; you do what you have to do to survive. But when it comes to competition, you should know the rule set you are going to compete under, and then train accordingly, and try to win accordingly.

Personally, I would have done what I know would have helped me to win. That isn't to say that your friend's strategy was a bad one, though. He just got caught.

My two cents, anyways.

[ps1]

In general, I agree with you. That is unless you're just senselessly going for submissions before you're in the position to do them.

But I know what you're talking about. I'm giving some private lessons to a blue belt under pablo popovich and he doesn't get it that there's more to Jiujitsu than points. I was teaching him some half guard stuff and told him to be careful of a kneebar in a spot. His response was that bluebelts aren't allowed to do kneebars in tournament! Doh!!!

[tallgeese]

Yeah, it's no good when people limit their knowlege basedo n what's allowable in tournys.

However, once you start competition, you're bound by the rule set and you might as well make it work to your advantage. Gain points by position is not a bad thing, remember, position is the cornerstone of good grappling and the building block for submission attempts. Not a bad thing to work on.

Not that winning by submissin is a bad strategy. But be sure you're prepping for the specific rules of each tourney you enter and train as much as possible under those rules prior to comptetition. One thing I've done is even disallow submission attmepts during sections of free rolling just to get people used to working the points system.

[ps1]

However, once you start competition, you're bound by the rule set and you might as well make it work to your advantage. Gain points by position is not a bad thing, remember, position is the cornerstone of good grappling and the building block for submission attempts. Not a bad thing to work on.

I agree one hundred percent. All the greats stress having position before submission.

[ShoriKid]

The only grappling rules set I've competed under was one from NAGA. You'd have to ask PitbullJudoka to be sure though. In that points set up, which doesn't take affect at all until the second round, your scoring points pretty much by getting to the superior position. So, in essense, it rewards you for setting up for a submission.

Like the ohters have said though, once your competing, you should strive to win under that rules set. Pick a strategy hat works toward your goal and see how you can accomplish it within the rules. As an example, if you want to win by submission, constantly strive toward improving position, which usually gets some points, and then set up the sub well.

[glockmeister]

I know what you mean. What's worse is losing when a guy scores a take-down and then holds you in the guard and holds on for dear life for 5 minutes and wins that way. It happened to me in my last tournament. I don't mind winning or losing by points, providing I am at least actively looking for a finish. Not just scoring a few points and then holding on till time runs out.

[Treebranch]

Yeah, but once you have the position you should go for the submission. Just sitting on someone seems like a detriment to the art.

[tallgeese]

I agree, it's a bummer when that thing happens. But it will be part of competition as most are run these days for the forseeable future.

Despite most wrestlers saying that they hate it when people stall on points most all have done it at one time or another. It's part of accepting the constraints of competition and utilizing rules to your advantage. And again, you could run into this kind of thing in the street under the right conditions. It dosen't hurt to prepare.

Best to keep active and work for escapes. If the guys guard is really good and the round is running short on time, I'll get a little more reckless in my attempts just to try and get space. I just keep in mind that his chance for a submission goes u p as well.

Again, we're not talking about a self defense situation here, but working within the constraints of a match.

[Treebranch]

I get your point about competition, but I really doubt that would ever happen in real life.