Whats the Point

[unknownstyle]

How many of us tell our students to go to the mountains, and do thousands of knuckle push-ups a day on rocks, and then punch a tree a thousand times, and then front kick a tree a thousand times, for years at a time? I am willing to be none of us. However, this was an "old school" method used by Mas Oyama, and it did work very well for him. And again, I don't know how many of his own students did this as well.

i maya noy ask this of all my stugenys but the ones that are dedicated and i see really have the potential to become skilled in the ma s i may suggest this kind of training to. personally i do it but that is me it is nothing im gonna force on someone, cause frankly it hurts but after awhile you become immune to these things and then you see what else you cam throw at your body. its not suited for everyone but give it a try

[bushido_man96]

Sure, you don't have to use the air-conditioning. But you have to make sure that you can provide a safe training environment for your students. When one passes out due to dehydration or heat exhaustion, then you have a serious issue on your hands.

[Bushido-Ruach]

If the issue really is teaching Old School vs New School, then what I would do is teach one nights class in Old School and the other two nights' classes as New School. I think that as the students became more serious in their training that they would slowly begin to migrate to the Old School night of training.

There you have it, the best of both worlds. Those new students who are trying out the martial arts for the very first time will stay with what they feel comfortable with and you don't have to worry about parents pulling their kids out of class because they won't be getting hurt. Then you also have the Old School way of doing things for those who mature in the class and want to improve upon their skills.

In this way, I don't think you would necesarrily be watering down anything, you would simply be utilizing teaching and training methods that are based upon class and an individual's maturity level.

Nuff' said

[NewEnglands_KyoSa]

Let's keep in mind, that like Ruach said not everyone is fit to use old school methods i have many disabled students and some with serious medical conditions. But i have never met anyone who has passed out from not having the air conditioner on. If you can't make it through a one hour class and you don't have the smarts to hydrate yourself properly beforehand you need to learn good health practices before you learn good martial arts practices.

Usually, most students will advise an instructor or are atleast told to if they are feeling that they can't handle things. Just like conditioning...like someone mentioned kicking trees...are you going to start off with the tree? no. You'll probably start of with something with a little padding to it, then so on and so forth.

[bushido_man96]

If you can't make it through a one hour class and you don't have the smarts to hydrate yourself properly beforehand you need to learn good health practices before you learn good martial arts practices.

You can point the finger at your students and say "you, you, you," all you want, but in the end, you are the one that will be held responsible as the leader and teacher of your class/school.

[NewEnglands_KyoSa]

If someone passes out because they don't hydrate themselves, I can't see how I am blamed.

But people don't just pass out, it either has to be extreme situations like extreme heat, extreme lack of nourishment, etc for the body to react like that. And if it's extreme heat, i'll make sure my students are hydrated.

The body is only as fragile as you treat it and teach it to be.

And i am willing to take responsibility for all of the above because there is nothing wrong with it. These people signed up for martial arts, not basket-weaving...that's why people sign wavers.

[bushido_man96]

In the end, waivers don't stand up very well. Otherwise, schools wouldn't need insurance.

[NewEnglands_KyoSa]

Insurance is just a fall back for the absolute insane happening. Waivers should cover what you are referring to perfectly with the correct wording.

What is comes down to is what you are willing to put into the mix of the qualities of your students. Do it or don't do it, that's whatever schools problem. I'm going to stick to doing MAs and keep away from basket-weaving.

Do whatever works, teach how you teach, because the all that matters is that in the end your true students that stick with it become better than you are.

[ShoriKid]

By "Old school" do you mean line basics in a group, kata drills, conditioning and all that? Not explaining techinques or answering questions? Not covering material in depth because the student hasn't 'earned' the right ot know it yet?

Or do you mean "old school" as in learning one or two kata after the basic techniques are in your hands. Small, 3 or 4 person classes with the instructor? A lot of partner drills and conditioning on your own? Not passing on the full sylibus except to one or two chosen students?

The definition of "old school" depends on if your talking traditional arts as they were taught orignally, or what most instructors learned three or four generations back. Which is a modern, militaristic training format meant to teach to the masses and impart a cultural format as much, if not more, than fighting skills.

Should you change what you teach in order to keep students? No.

Should you change how you teach to keep students? Sure.

The how includes more effective drills, better communication of techniques, depth of explaination on your part when warrented.

To keep the doors open you need to pay the rent, unless you teach from your paid for, non-mortgaged home. Our instructor's instructor was talking to a few of us before a grading and talking about the classes he used to run. He described one class of not so serious students who had fun and wanted to be in shape without going overboard. He hated teaching them, but it was part of his contract to do so at the time and he finished by saying, "You have to have rent payers so your serious students can train. And if your lucky, some of your rent payers will get serious, but don't count on it."

Not everyone is into the martial arts to become hardened fighters, or disciples of an ancient method of warrior training. A lot are there for the social aspects and the fitness benefits. Because they have fun. And it's not the same fun had by those of us who don't mind the bruising and the battering our bodies take.

I've trained without AC on the second floor of a metal roofed building in the head of August and in a small one floor with almost no heat in the dead of winter. I've trained in the middle of summer with the HEAT on before. I've trained outdoors in the heat and cold too. I am not the average student. Heck, I don't think I'm even the average dedicated student. Just because I've done those things doesn't mean I think others should have to do them to be "real" karateka. Both sets of training conditions can lead to health issues and be detrimental to training.

Have them sign all the waviers you want. Waviers only really keep those who don't want to sue you from thinking it's easy. A decient lawyer can walk through anything that wasn't professionally prepaired in short order. Those professionally prepaired, he'll just show how you were intentionally putting someone at a higher degree of risk.

[bushido_man96]

Well said, Shorikid.