UFC versus Pure Combat

[Adonis]

Some one mentioned MMA fighters coming from a traditional back ground. Take GSP for example he is a TKD black belt. However TKD alone wouldn't have gotten him as far as where he is now. He added in BJJ, wersting, muay thai/boxing and been training fight stradegy and conditing with Greg Jackson out of NM. He has a used spinning back kick a few times to success of hitting his opponent. However it hasn't ended a fight for to my knowledge yet, plus it hasn't been consitently he has used it.

Shonie Carter KO'ed Matt Serra with a spinning back fist. Same thing it hasn't been consistently done. There for to me they aren't high percentage or frequently used moves. Only circumstances dictate them. So the point is I have yet to see one dimential TMA dominate except for Gracie Jiu-Jitsu depsite the opponent selection of the first UFC's could be debated.

As regarding triaining methods is on the money. Fully resiting parnter, anlayze weakness, and trained on them, then postional or situational sparring, then full on sparring. For a stradgey to use. I don't mean full contact either. You can go medium contact, have a resiting parnter.

Also training the diffrent ranges of sparring is improtant also.

Any way we all agree it seems to me about the trainign methology diffrence.

There is many things to a fight, the adrinline dump, suprise factor (sucker punch, jumped) enivorment ie.parkling lot, bar, home ect.... that factors into fighting. That isn't covered in MMA trainign as majority of MMA schooling is based on the sport alone. How ever indviduals who want to get the best self defense training should seek out other sources of knowledge to better get experience.

Example Tony Blauer has differnt trainign gear suits, and trainig on the emotional side of an altercation. There is fire arms training, scenerio training to defuse the physical altercation of a fight happening, and many other aspects of self defense I think lacking honestly in both in TMA and MMA.

[tallgeese]

I agree, Blauer's stuff is top shelf as far as DT programs are concerned. I also think that the suit of armor they developed is the best currently out there that I've seen.

[Adonis]

After getting beat down in that suit. I defiently agree! Its a great training tool. EXPENSIVE! but still a great training tool.

[Chucksmanhood]

GSP, Kyokushin Karate Black Belt, not TKD. (sorry to be so picky)

[Adonis]

I thought he mentioned he had a TKD black belt Never mind though I looked it up your right it was Kyokoshin

[MMA_Jim]

Regarding MMA events. They have rules! Any way I am rambing now so I am going to stop.

EVERYONE fights with rules- this is a moot point! Marines, Army Rangers, mixed martial artists, traditional martial artists, Reality based martial artists- ALL FIGHT AND TRAIN WITH RULES.

Rules are required for the safety of those involved. MMA'er train with rules for reasons I explained before. Marines and military train with rules so as not to seriously injure one another while practicing, as does everyone else I mentioned.

When you practice your eye gouges or your throat strikes- do you go full power on your opponent? I'll bet a resounding NO from everyone who responds to this question. I'll also bet that your opponent isnt fighting with everything he has to keep you from doing it.

Then there are those who pad themselves up (i.e. Reality based "martial artists"). You will not be padded up when you're in a fight! And neither will your opponent. Most of the people I see doing this have someone wear a suit of armor so they (the student/ instructor) can beat the hell out of them. The most important thing these people are neglecting is the ability to take a hit.

The point is- NO ONE trains to fight "without rules." Whoever you are and whatever you're training no one here does it. Whether you're going at a slow pace, wearing protective gear, tapping out, or stopping short of killing your partner- these are ALL RULES.

There is other factors that MMA fighters don't trani on for MMA events, such as multiple opponents, weapons. In a real fight there is all the above as well as objects in the way, for example bar fight, you may have pool table, table, chairs, bar, or other objects in the way detering from the effectiveness of certain techniques, in may help with techniques as well though it all depends, either way they are a factor, so enviroment would be another condsideration.

Multiple opponents and weapons....

I see great irony in these arguments. Take this into consideration: The earliest MMA events (UFC and beyond) had no rules- NONE. So yes that means you could bite, eye gouge, and groin kick your way through them. These events were filled with martial artists who claimed they could do just what you explained- defeat multiple assailants with their years of training. Why is it then that EVERY fighter from either of these respective styles proved unable to defeat but a single attacker?

Where is the logic in this argument?

"I can fight and defeat 3-4 men at once, but a single attacker proved too much for me."

Perhaps what we should say is that they trained the theory of how to fight and defeat 3-4 men at once- that makes much more sense. But it also stands to reason that they've trained for 1 attacker, correct? So if their theory for fighting one person was apparently greatly flawed (proof being that they were soundly defeated) that is incredibly strong evidence that their theory for defeating MORE than one person would be exponentially more flawed.

Someone who trains to fight multiple or single opponents doesnt become better at it just because they train it- they have to train it properly. I can train to fly by flapping my arms everyday for 10 years, but after all that time I'll have no more success at flying than someone else who's never tried it.

[MMA_Jim]

I think MMA is a thing of pure beauty and that's how feel about many of the arts. The aim of true combat is to kill. That kind of fight would look really different. Most street fights are basically two people fighting for their pride, not their lives. If someone attacks me on the street I assume they want to kill me and I won't fight unless I'm attacked. MMA is a sport with rules, money on the line and fighters that want to keep fighting to make money. They are extremely talented and trained and in a fair fight can wipe the floor with me, but combat is another story.

That kind of fight wouldnt look very much different, assuming the same combatants.

Some fighters can fight to adhere to the rules- fighting for a decision, for example (lay and pray, landing good, but weak punch counts from the feet) but everything else is working just fine- a ko or submission ends a fight just as well as the next thing. How would it look if it were real combat? Well, it would look alot like the very first MMA events- except we dont stop when the person gets ko'ed or taps out. After they've been ko'ed, choked unconcious, or crippled by a joint lock, one could simply choose to keep beating them until death.

They are extremely talented and trained and in a fair fight can wipe the floor with me, but combat is another story.

Combat is- hand to hand combat isnt much different

[tallgeese]

Just a brief comment about the armoring up.

I agree with a bulk of what you're saying Jim. However, training with heavy armor has it's place. It really lets you t-off on partners without fear of injury quite as much.

No, it won't be there in reality. However, training this way from time to time is benifical in working at speed against heavy aggression. It is also excellent mindset training.

Should it be the only way you're training? No way. I agree that you have to take hits to learn this game. It's the only way to really know how to deal with it. It's a tool in the training tool box, noting more or less.

[MMA_Jim]

You misunderstand, Tallgeese- Im simply bringing that topic up to prove that even those who train for a "no rules" street fight will indeed train using protective equipment and rules- thereby negating their own argument.

[tallgeese]

Good point. At best, if we actaully want to walk away from training let alone continue to do it day after day is accept certain training protocols. I see where you're going there.