Kiah Shouts

[Johnlogic121]

The practice of making a powerful shout during a fight is common in Chinese martial arts as well as Japanese martial arts. In my instruction in Japanese martial arts, most instructors asserted that the sound of the shout doesn't matter. I had one teacher who said you could shout "Yah!" or shout "Pizza!" and it would achieve the same effect. In my instruction in Chinese martial arts, however, the specific sound was considered very significant, especially during the execution of forms. The way it was explained to me is that different sounds require the lungs and diaphram to contract in different ways. Thus, certain sounds for a shout are more appropriate than others at certain times for different purposes. Some sounds use the air on the top of the lungs and some other sounds expel air from the entire chest cavity. Consequently, there are breathing secrets in Chinese martial arts that are encapsulated in the sounds your instructor teaches you, and you don't need to understand the complex anatomy to use the right sound for the right situation, you just need the proper instruction. Japanese sounds like "Hai," "Yah," or "Toh" are associated with attacking, victory, and defense in Ninjutsu but Chinese arts get more elaborate in the variety of sounds used. Can anybody give an example of how they would spell the words they yell in their Chinese martial art? Does anybody know the Mandarin word that corresponds to the Japanese word "kiah?" (shout?) Has anybody heard of health imbalances that can occur from repeatedly using the wrong word for a shout during a therapuetic form? Does anybody feel that yelling "Pizza" is perfectly fine, and that refinement of the word used is unnecessary? Thanks in advance for the time it takes to type your input. -JL

[bushido_man96]

What I find important about the kiai, kihap, or "spirit yell" is that it should come from the abdomen, and not from the throat. You should expel the air from your body in a forceful manner.

I thought that the Chinese styles didn't put as much emphasis on shouting as other styles tended to. I could be wrong, though.

[Johnlogic121]

My Sifu was always very particular about the precise imitation of the shout sounds used in class. If somebody goofed and made the wrong noise, they got the sternest lokks you could imagine. Most of the breathing in Mang Chaun comes from the upper abdomen rather than the lower abdomen, in imitation of the kind of breathing that runners sometimes use, because it is believed to help conserve your supply of air a little better and cultivate higher endurance. Also, people tend to naturally breathe a little higher in their chest when under exertion, and many Kung Fu styles feel that natural instincts should be reinforced rather than modfied under special training. When delivering power moves, the shouts we made came from the lower abdomen, as you wrote about. -JL.

[Kajukenbopr]

To my knowledge, Kung Fu rarely is taught with shouting since there is a big emphasis on being relaxed and natural breathing with the diaphragm.

this video however, is about the six healing sounds of Chi Kung, they are used to create specific vibrations within the body, to help develop Chi correctly throughout the body.

http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=BFqotaIc3Dw

[joesteph]

In my instruction in Japanese martial arts, most instructors asserted that the sound of the shout doesn't matter. I had one teacher who said you could shout "Yah!" or shout "Pizza!" and it would achieve the same effect. . . .

Some sounds use the air on the top of the lungs and some other sounds expel air from the entire chest cavity. . . .

Has anybody heard of health imbalances that can occur from repeatedly using the wrong word for a shout during a therapuetic form? . . .

As a high school teacher who often lectures, I have to project my voice, as someone on stage does, speaking with inflection (monotone can ruin the most interesting material to present), and repeating this in more than one class, more than one day in a row. There is no way to do this if I "project" through the upper chest; it's just shouting. I have to project through the diaphragm, or I'll just strain my voice and tire myself out for the next class. That's a self-inflicted health imbalance to me. Look at a sleeping baby and see how nature has the baby breathe through the diaphragm/upper abdomen, the floating ribs moving with the expansion and contraction of that central area. (Watch out for babies that are awake and crying. Wow! That is one piercing sound coming from such a tiny person.) Singers use the diaphragm as well; that's the core area.

My instructor's teacher has visited the dojang on a number of occasions, and she has run us through proper breathing not only when practicing hyungs, but also when sparring and, of course, for the kihap. She emphasizes the kihap as coming from the diaphragm. When I did Tae Kwon Do many years ago, the instructors had no particular yell, such as "Kihap," just that we yell. It was natural for me to yell something like "Hawh!"; it was a long loud shout, though, like "Haaawwwwhhhh!" I was kidded that I was scaring the h___ out of everybody, but my instructors had no problem with it.

Comparing sounds, just yelling "Yah!" involves the diaphragm better than another sound/word, such as the example of "Pizza!" That "p" sound is holding your air back; another letter to start with that would be more natural would be an "h" or a "k." I took some cardio-kickboxing classes recently, and the instructor, who had studied Isshinryu when younger, had us yell "Ka!" at certain points.

Personally, I yell "Kihap!" at appropriate times because it's approved, and it comes from the diaphragm, but if I felt it would be accepted, I'd avoid the two-syllable "Ki-hap" and choose a one-syllable, easy-starting, vowel-ending yell. The core of the different yell? The diaphragm.

[tallgeese]

Slightly off topic-

I'm just a breathing guy. Rarely use any kiai.

I think that mainly it's importance is with breath control and intra-abdominal pressure. Breathing forcfully and in proper pattern will acheive this as well. What you're looking for is controlled wind in your lungs so your gut dosent implode if your strike is countered. Proper breathing will also increse stamina to a degree.

There are a couple of reasons I t hink to stay away from the kiai. One, you give away the tactical advantage of suprise and you actually jump start the bad guys flight or fight response. If he falls into the fight catagory, you've just initated his adriline dump that will enable him to fight more efficiently for a time.

Two, it does focus you on a single attack. This means that you will be less likely to flow into combination strikes, which are far more effective than relying on a single blow.

So, regardless of language, I stay away from them and choose to focus on breathing and breath control.

[Tiger1962]

The practice of making a powerful shout during a fight is common in Chinese martial arts as well as Japanese martial arts. In my instruction in Japanese martial arts, most instructors asserted that the sound of the shout doesn't matter. I had one teacher who said you could shout "Yah!" or shout "Pizza!" and it would achieve the same effect. In my instruction in Chinese martial arts, however, the specific sound was considered very significant, especially during the execution of forms. The way it was explained to me is that different sounds require the lungs and diaphram to contract in different ways. Thus, certain sounds for a shout are more appropriate than others at certain times for different purposes. Some sounds use the air on the top of the lungs and some other sounds expel air from the entire chest cavity. Consequently, there are breathing secrets in Chinese martial arts that are encapsulated in the sounds your instructor teaches you, and you don't need to understand the complex anatomy to use the right sound for the right situation, you just need the proper instruction. Japanese sounds like "Hai," "Yah," or "Toh" are associated with attacking, victory, and defense in Ninjutsu but Chinese arts get more elaborate in the variety of sounds used. Can anybody give an example of how they would spell the words they yell in their Chinese martial art? Does anybody know the Mandarin word that corresponds to the Japanese word "kiah?" (shout?) Has anybody heard of health imbalances that can occur from repeatedly using the wrong word for a shout during a therapuetic form? Does anybody feel that yelling "Pizza" is perfectly fine, and that refinement of the word used is unnecessary? Thanks in advance for the time it takes to type your input. -JL

I don't think I could keep a straight face in class if I shouted the word "pizza"

But seriously, whatever works for you and your instructor approves, by all means use it. I find the "kiah" shout really helps me when I am nervous about performing kata or if I am sparring and I score a point...shouting "kiah" releases the nervous energy besides its other uses. When I'm in a tournament competing in forms, I've been told my "kiah's" are louder than normal. I know it's my nervous energy being released.

[tenshinka]

It should be noted that KI AI is not the actual sound you are making...It would be the equivalent, in English, of saying that to shout, one must say "Shout!".

The characters that make up Ki Ai/Ki Hap are 気合/기합, it is no coincidence, that if you reverse them you get AiKi, and Hapki (合気 & 합기). Ki, of course refers to energy, and Ai/Hap refers to harmony, unification, coordination etc.

This refers to the phenomena of "Joining Energy", unifying your body for maximum technique efficiency.

The Ki Ai/Ki Hap, properly done, is performed from the diaphragm, not just a sound made in the throat. When performing a proper Ki Ai/Ki Hap you tighten your Dan Tien/Dan Jun, and straighten your back, aligning your body for proper technique.

In addition, the Ki Ai/Ki Hap can provide a brief second, distraction to your opponent, that may be enough to allow you to complete your technique, without resistance (because you move their mind away from the technique you are performing)...

Hmmm...technique without effort...Sound like Aikido, or Hapkido to you???

;-D

--josh

p.s. To those of you who believe in "Ki", there is also the bit, about the unifying the breathing, and tightening of the dantien/danjun, which allows you to force the force (err...ki) into your techniques, from your waist into your hands, feet, arm, whatever ;-D

[joesteph]

It should be noted that KI AI is not the actual sound you are making...It would be the equivalent, in English, of saying that to shout, one must say "Shout!". . . .

The Ki Ai/Ki Hap, properly done, is performed from the diaphragm, not just a sound made in the throat. . . .

In addition, the Ki Ai/Ki Hap can provide a brief second, distraction to your opponent, that may be enough to allow you to complete your technique, without resistance (because you move their mind away from the technique you are performing)...

A friend of mine who studied Isshinryu years ago told me then, Josh, that the Japanese word "kiai" was the word for scream. "Scream" or "shout," it's the same thing; we're just using a non-English word as a battle cry.

I remember reading that martial artists from a good dojang will not be startled by a kihap, because they've heard it--and bellowed it--repeatedly. It's a suitable way to startle an attacker in a real-life situation, especially if you sound, well, insane. Who wants to fight someone that they think is crazy? Screaming and attacking your opponent(s) has a better shot at driving off the enemy than fighting back alone.

[tenshinka]

It should be noted that KI AI is not the actual sound you are making...It would be the equivalent, in English, of saying that to shout, one must say "Shout!". . . .

The Ki Ai/Ki Hap, properly done, is performed from the diaphragm, not just a sound made in the throat. . . .

In addition, the Ki Ai/Ki Hap can provide a brief second, distraction to your opponent, that may be enough to allow you to complete your technique, without resistance (because you move their mind away from the technique you are performing)...

A friend of mine who studied Isshinryu years ago told me then, Josh, that the Japanese word "kiai" was the word for scream. "Scream" or "shout," it's the same thing; we're just using a non-English word as a battle cry.

I remember reading that martial artists from a good dojang will not be startled by a kihap, because they've heard it--and bellowed it--repeatedly. It's a suitable way to startle an attacker in a real-life situation, especially if you sound, well, insane. Who wants to fight someone that they think is crazy? Screaming and attacking your opponent(s) has a better shot at driving off the enemy than fighting back alone.

Hi Joe,

The person, where my source material comes from, happens to be a Japanese national ...No offense to anyone, but being as he has a strong fluency in Japanese (being a national), and English (having a Masters degree), I trust his translations...A *loose* interpretation may refer to the action normally associated with Ki Ai (Ki Hap), but kanji/hanja remain constant.

As I am currently learning, Joe, there are some sub-conscious reactions that go on to "move the mind"...To that effect, one does not need to sound like a crazy person, but rather a simple focused (and even disciplined) shout works well...

take care,

--josh