Belt Systems

[KickChick]

IMO ... belts have always been an idication of tenure in the system not a measure of skill.

 

A specific colored belt is awarded to a student based upon his or her meeting the minimum requirements for the belt and for his or her demonstration of skills during a test that are substantially improved from his or her last belt test. Belts are awarded to students based on improvement of their own personal skills. For this reason, belts give only a rough estimate of a student's skills. One same color belt student may display extraordinary skills in comparison to another same color belt student. It may appear that the lesser skilled student does not deserve the belt, when in actuality, he or she trained an extraordinary number of hours and showed great progress to earn the belt in

 

comparison to the more skilled belt who was able to easily learn the skills in a short time.

 

Each student then trains and progresses at his or her own rate in accordance to his or her own desire and ability.

 

What you are failing to realize searcher is rank is awarded based on tenure, performing certain minimum skills, and on making substantial personal improvement, it is a more a social and psychological status than it is an indicator of fighting ability.

 

 

[Taikudo-ka]

I think Kickchick has made a good point here.

 

Too many people seem to look upon belts as some sort of "fight championship" grade, where to keep your belt you must be able to whip anyone "lower" than you, but in turn most certainly lose to anyone "higher"...

 

That is a highly unrealistic goal. It would just turn testing into one big sparring match, with the belts determined by who wins on a particular week. You'd never keep a rank long as any "newbie" (even one with years experience in another art) could come in, whip your butt, and take your belt, sending you to the back of the class to start again.

 

Belts would be nothing more than a competition ranking board...

 

Besides, if said newbie comes in, built like Mike Tyson with matching personality, and defeats a black-belt with pure brute force and aggression, thus "claiming" their belt, is this new "black belt" in any way ready to teach, and pass on his techniques? Does he even has any? Can he even tell a good punch from bad? Or is he some freak who goes home to pound concrete and won with sheer luck and 250 lbs of brute force?

 

In my dojo, sparring may form part of a test, but it is balanced with other stuff - measurements of quality of basic techniques done both ultra slow and as fast as possible, kata, plus the sensei's general observation of your technique and where you've come from, skill wise.

 

At the end of the day, it is measuring your ability to perform prescribed techniques to a certain degree of proficiency, and thus ultimately the time and dedication you've put into training, regardless of beginning ability or natural skill. It also makes life easier for teachers, who can, say, easily ask different levels of students to perform different techniques, even if they are all training together.

 

Also remember that rank is only meaningful in a particular school or organization. Having a black belt in karate does not automatically make you an expert in judo, even if some sparring match against a judoka might seem to prove otherwise. Comparing colored belts is particularly stupid as they are different with every art and style. White tends to indicate total beginners, and a 1st dan black belt should generally indicate mastery of all basic techniques to a high degree, but in between everything is up for grabs. (As is seems is everything above 4th or 5th dan...)

 

 

[Bitseach]

Gosh, interesting. I've never been to a club that has used anything other than first names, or "Sensei/Sampei" at a push.

 

"Ma'am" is not really used here in the UK, except to military Commissioned Officers or Warrent Officers (Sgt Major etc) or police above the rank of Inspector (by junior ranks) or to the Royal Family! Or sarcastically!!

 

In day-to-day life there is sometimes a "Sir" or "Madam" but more often than not it is "Love", "Mate" or in some regions, "Ducks"!

 

 

[karatekid1975]

I read those posts kickchick. Interesting. Reading those old post and these, I have to say that it (belts) should matter to a certain degree. To me, you must WORK for your rank (isn't that's how it's supposed to be?!?!?!). If you work your @$$ off for your rank, it will mean something to you and your instructor. But it shouldn't measure a person's skill (only what they know and worked for). I'm only a yellow belt (soon to be green this month), but I know more than most blue belts there only because I came from another style. But I know most of them worked their @$$ off to get there. I respect them for that.

 

I also believe that rank shouldn't be handed out like candy either. If one doesn't deserve it (like not knowing the forms, step sparring, ect, ect) and doesn't try, they should be held back. I believe rank shouldn't be "bought". It happens at McDojangs, which is very sad, but it does happen. In this case, it's all wrong.

 

 

[KickChick]

It was not until about 1973 that most of "Karate" got their act together and ended up with the belt ranking system they use today.

 

Let's go back in history to see how ranks were viewed.

 

In 1605 Karate spread to Japan and the first school was opened in the providence of Okinawa.

 

During this period of history, the Imperial Family of Japan - because of their religion - when praying left... their armed guards (with their weapons) outside the temple.

 

Because of this practice , assassins would usually strike at the Imperial Family while they were engaged in these ceremonies and were unguarded.

 

When the Okinawa school opened it became mandatory for all Knights (Samurai) of the Imperial Guard to attend. In this way they could guard the Imperial Family during the

 

ceremonies.

 

The belt, warn as part of the uniform, would also denote the wearers degree of ability. For example, a first degre belt was not expected to be able to disarm a man with a

 

knife or lance. His belt, made of heavy fiber, was worn in such a manner as to protect his heart and lungs from the thrust of such weapons.

 

Guard duties were assigned by degree held. This general ruling being that the higher the degree, the closer the duties to the person being guarded.

 

Eventually, the two men with the highest degree of ability awarded the red belt and became personal guards to the Crown Prince and Princess, The award of red belt was accompanied with the title of Lord of Uano and a suitable land grant. The next highest

 

degree man understudied the two red belts.

 

... interesting huh?

 

_________________

 

KarateForums Sensei

 

1st dan Tae Kwon Do (ITF)

 

Cardio/Fitness Kickboxing Instr.

 

[ This Message was edited by: KickChick on 2002-06-18 15:12 ]

[Bitseach]

Wow, fascinating. I hadn't heard this before.

 

 

[chh]

I think if you're working your butt off for your rank, then in a way you're missing the point of training. I train hard, but my goals have nothing to do with getting new belts. Every once in a while I get an invitation to test and I show up for it, but it's not like an era of my training has ended at that point, it's more like a nice little compliment from my sensei that says he feels I'm improving. In my dojo, my one year of training and three promotions equals a white belt. My next promotion will get me a yellow belt, the only thought I have on that is I'm going to hate trading in my nice comfy supple belt for a stiff new one. I've always liked the idea of a dojo where they didn't bother with the whole belt thing. We all know who the most senior student is, we shouldn't obsess over why there are little kids of questionable skill running around with his rank, everybody gets promoted for different reasons. I think it's fine to give colored belts to the little kids, motivation and all, but I really think adults could get by just fine without them. Whether or not somebody "deserves his rank" is subjective to the point of being an entirely stupid question, so I just don't see the point of advertising the rank with the belt.

 

Sorry this is a bit of a ramble...

[KickChick]

I think if you're working your butt off for your rank, then in a way you're missing the point of training. I train hard, but my goals have nothing to do with getting new belts. Every once in a while I get an invitation to test and I show up for it, but it's not like an era of my training has ended at that point, it's more like a nice little compliment from my sensei that says he feels I'm improving. In my dojo, my one year of training and three promotions equals a white belt.

 

chh ... I agree, your goal is not to train for achieving your next belt but in all actuality that is what you are doing. It is all of your efforts made concrete so-to-speak. I personally do not train for rank but I certainly am not going to turn it down when I am ready for it.

 

 

[--]

I guess the thing I disagree with about belts is how readily they are handed out at some schools. A lot of TKD places give out belts like candy. It's basically, learn a new kick, take a $40 belt test, learn a new punch, take another belt test, etc. Hardly any focus on the degree of skill or understanding. It's true that dedication is a huge factor, but the student should also understand the art, not just the kicks and punches.

 

Btw, both my gi and belt are clean, but I hand wash 'em. I leave the blood stains and such in, while removing sweat, dirt, etc. It takes a while to wash, but nothing looks cooler than a slightly torn-up, blood-stained gi.

 

 

[Lau gar]

yeh well some places aren't like that and belt systems are actually very good schemes