test length

[moriniuk]

Joe, I don't really understand your reply.

I'm against having a fitness test as part of any martial arts grading.

I don't see what being able to do 100 push ups or sit ups has anything to do with demonstrating your martial arts skills.

I'm not a jumping kick kind of guy, so this situation is fine by me.

[Tiger1962]

I don't see what being able to do 100 push ups or sit ups has anything to do with demonstrating your martial arts skills.

I don't either, although I think I know why instructors make students to this. Endurance !

Having good endurance enables you to get through a long / form without becoming winded. Having good endurance enables you to get through a sparring match without sucking wind. (been there!) Having good endurance (aka - breathing) helps you stick it out there on the dojo floor.

So, while I despise jumping jacks, push-ups and that kind of stuff, I know if I do it and gradually increase my reps, it can only help me in the long run with my staying power in the various parts of my curriculum that require endurance. If you can do all the fitness stuff and pass, your staying power in the martial arts stuff should improve.

I would assume this is especially true for people who train and have asthma.

[moriniuk]

The grading test, in my opinion, should test the results of training.

It's fine to train to improve stamina during training sessions and then demonstrate this during the test.

[joesteph]

Joe, I don't really understand your reply. . . .

I don't see what being able to do 100 push ups or sit ups has anything to do with demonstrating your martial arts skills.

I see what you're referring to, Moriniuk.

I'm not a jumping kick kind of guy, so this situation is fine by me.

Although I'm a lower belt, I've been able to see the scoring sheets (before they were filled out) used by my art and style, Soo Bahk Do Moo Duk Kwan. I've also had access to what is required for each promotion. Within are different required strikes and blocks, and among them I've noted certain jumping kicks. During my first test, I had to do the jumping front kick, but another student and I were permitted to do a hop and front kick, because she and I have knee concerns, and so our instructor, giving her consent, informed the examiner. During the second test, it was a jumping inside-outside crescent kick, and I was again permitted to hop forward to cover the distance, then perform the kick, again, my instructor working with the examiner. These are exceptions to--or, I should say, accommodations regarding--what is listed on the testing sheet and requirements list.

When you posted about a fitness test, Moriniuk, I considered these, because of the testing procedure/requirements for promotion. I didn't even think of all those pushups, sit-ups, and what-have-you. I'm not opposed to someone being such a physically fit person that these can be done; I admit envy, wishing I could equal these abilities. But I think we're of one mind that these shouldn't be requirements, and from your posting, I see that you're not wedded to the jumping kicks.

Thanks for the opportunity to clarify my posting.

[joesteph]

. . . I had to do the jumping front kick . . .

. . . it was a jumping inside-outside crescent kick . . .

During the summer, after the first test, I went to the jogging track at one of the parks in my town, and I practiced the jumping front kick on the cushioned material used for jogging on that track. I was able to get up to upper shin high, not exactly high enough to demonstrate proficiency for a test, but it was fun and I didn't have the same knee discomfort as on a harder surface, such as the dojang floor. But I've stuck with the hop and then front kick in the dojang, where it's sometimes called out to do.

For the next test, in my preparing for it, the student I was partnered up with is about forty years old, with a higher belt. After my instructor explained and demonstrated the jumping inside-outside crescent kick in the dojang, I decided to give it a try after he did it so well, likely from experience. I jumped and my left leg slid as soon as it hit the dojang floor; although I was fine falling on my left, the swing from moving my right leg in the inner-outer crescent motion twisted my body so that I landed in a seated position, my right hand on the dojang floor--and the impact traveling into my right wrist.

My instructor immediately asked me if I were all right, and mentioned my right wrist. I said I was fine and apologized for disturbing the class. I just couldn't tell her that I'd been clumsy and that my wrist hurt. I continued the class, doing the hop and inside-outside crescent kick. That weekend, my wrist had some swelling, but I knew nothing was broken; it was more "wrenched" than sprained. It's been several weeks now, and there's still a twinge in one spot, but I'm expecting it'll subside.

When going for a higher belt, even a stripe on a belt, more is demanded. The green belts going for promotion are doing jumping side kicks. I wonder how you hop and do those? I'll figure it out.

[bushido_man96]

Lots of gradings seem to include fitness tests, which in my opinion is a waste of time.

Moriniuk, in the fitness tests you're referring to, suppose the individual cannot do jump kicks. Let's say the reason is because of the knees. The person can do a "hop forward" and then kick to cover the distance. I know a dan member whose knees were both operated on, so while he's permitted to do karate, he isn't permitted to practice or perform jump kicks. It really is a case of "doctor's orders."

Anything on this?

I'd say test them based on their abilities, not their inabilities. Find some way to substitute the requirement, and then make them perform it. It shouldn't be easier, but different.

[tallgeese]

I see a certain of fitness as needed. However, I think that tests should be designed to showcase that by your mere successful completion.

It should not be a the center of the pass/fail decision but you should reach passing easier if you have it. For us, the black belt test is kind of the exam on this catagory. An hour of continous sparring is required at the end of it. This is mandantory and covers alot of different ground. This final enduarance fest is kind of part of what you've been training to survive since white belt. There's no seperate fitness portion, but you have to get thru it. Most guys start a condition program if they aren't alreay on one prior to it so they can finish in better form.

I do think a point comes, higher in the dan ranking for sure, where dishing out beatings and surviving them less important. We all age, this affects us, whether we like to admit it or not (still having trouble with this myself). A systems ranking procedures need to realize this and account more for a teaching/coach role as the years slide by.

At the end of the day, what should matter most is how well one has learned the material useful for defending oneself at the assigned rank.

[Shotokan Student]

My sensai says to get from red to brown belt there is a 2 day test. I'm only purple now so I have about a year and a half at least till that happens. Anybody have any idea what a two day test could be all about?

[bushido_man96]

It could be about many things. You may do forms and applications on one day. You may do breaking and fighting on another. There may be two sessions of several hours each, and you may have to demonstrate teaching and the like. Its hard to tell, really.

Ask some of your black belts about it. They may not tell you, though.

[jamesdow5419]

Where i take martial arts the tests run from 2-6 hours depending on how many students and what belt