Corkscrew Punches

[Johnlogic121]

In many old fashioned Karate systems, the punches would rotate from a knuckles down position to a knuckles up position when the fist started from the hip. Even when a higher hand guarding position is used, the bottom of the first starts in a position facing the opponent and the hand generally rotates ninety degrees so that the punch lands with the knuckles facing up like before. In styles like Isshinryu, the fist is always kept in a position where the knuckles are vertical, whether you punch from the waist or from a high hand guard. The blows even land with vertical knuckles. This form of punching keeps the elbow in a more natural position throughout the punch for the delivery of maximum power. However, rotating the fist makes it more challenging for a jujutsu stylist or an Aikidoist to catch your spinning wrist and apply a wrist lock on your arm. Also, punching calisthenics that involve forearm rotation tend to encourage the growth of really strong forearm muscles that can help in techniques where you have to grab and twist the opponent in your hands during a throw. Personally, I tend to use a vertical fist, but many boxers are comfortable with wrist rotation and find it to be equally satisfactory. Does your style use wrist rotation when punching? Does the other method feel unnatural to you? Does anybody find that the speed of your forearm rotation slows the maximum speed at which you can launch a focused punch? Does repeated punching ever make your forearms fatigued? Just some questions, --JL

[bushido_man96]

In my style, most of our punches are rotated, the "corkscrew," as you call it.

The straight vertical punch has an interesting history. Although the twist can add some power to the technique, the vertical fist, when striking with the last 3 knuckles of the hand, provides incredible support of the striking tool. This support is not as strong in the horizontal fist. Bruce Lee actually researched his vertical fist from old Boxing texts. The name Driscoll is the Boxer he read of. Most of his claims of the vertical fist come from him.

[Zanshin]

I think most traditional "Karate" based arts will use the rotation of the wrist whilst doing their Kihon (basic) training.

It is my understanding that these are not supposed to represent a way to apply a punch in reality, but more a training aid in order to promote correct body mechanics, timing energy transfer etc behind a punch.

As I have detailed in a previous post, the rotation of the fist not only engenders good timing but also is representative of one of the three primary sources of energy, Kinetic, Potential and Rotational.

Kihon is after all just exercising understand of technique.

[tallgeese]

I think that the difference in a rotational punch and a vertical fist has more to to with matching your strking surface to it's target than anything else. I would venture a guess that most of my strikes rotate, but not all. I've noticed that alot of mine rotate, but only to about 45 degrees or so, it seems the most comfortable.

Alot of the rotation out of arts that chamber strikes at the ribs or hip seems to come from the simple biomechanics of transitioning from this ready posture to a striking surface for your fist. If one uses a higher, boxing style guard, it lesses the degee to which one needs to utilize a rotating motion.

Most of the power of a strike coomes from the ground up through the hips rather than arm mechanics, putting drills that develop hip rotation much higher on my list of drills to work.

[cross]

We do both. Predominantly the full rotation is taught and practiced in kihon. This covers the full range of motion you can expect from the punch including a short shot to the body with the knuckles facing down, the vertical punch, the 3/4 turn punch, and the full rotation punch.

To me neither method really feels any more or less natural than the other, i think each has its place and knowing both is beneficial.

[harleyt26]

Early Isshinryu also used the full rotation of the wrist.Which is still practiced by some Isshinryu groups.When the marines pinned Tatsuo Shimabuku down and asked him which punch he thought was better(after asking many times)he said the vertical because Isshinryu is a close in fighting style which allows for less distance in order to rotate the punch.For longer range punches Shimabuku sensei taught the full rotation punch also.A very close punch will remain knuckles down a midrange punch will be at vertical and as the punch progresses on out the wrist will pass between three quarter to full twist but in any case the arm should not go to full extension,the shoulder should be down and the elbow should remain close to the body and pointing down.Shimabuku's empty hand teachers were Myagi,Kyan and Motobu he punched as they taught him to punch.The Isshinryu vertical fist is a very good punch and makes the wrist very strong and unbendable but it does not fit into all targets such as a throat shot.

Tom Hodges

[bushido_man96]

Harleyt26, that is some interesting history on the Isshinryu punching ideals. Thanks for sharing it.

Alot of the rotation out of arts that chamber strikes at the ribs or hip seems to come from the simple biomechanics of transitioning from this ready posture to a striking surface for your fist. If one uses a higher, boxing style guard, it lesses the degee to which one needs to utilize a rotating motion.

These are interesting points. I had never looked at is as such before. However, it does make sense.

I try to work on both, full rotation and vertical. However, when I strike vertically, I strike with the last 3 knuckles. When striking horizontally, I strike with the first 2 knuckles.

[harleyt26]

My Isshinryu sensei is Bill Steigner he trained with Tatsuo Shimabuku in the early sixties.We train full twist punches in the kihon/basics except for upper cuts which are of course knuckles down.But in the kata it depends on the applications we are working for that segment of the form.

Has anyone else noticed that boxing gloves are formed the same as the Isshinryu fist,thumb on top of the forefinger knuckle instead of the conventional way of wrapping the thumb over the middle segment of the forefinger.It makes the wrist less susceptable to sprains.

Tom Hodges

[bushido_man96]

I have noticed that when I hook punch the bag or BOB, I have a tendency to get my thumb caught in the strike, which might really hurt if I am striking someone's head. Putting the thumb on the side seems to take care of this problem, but I don't feel like the fist is as tight, then.

[unknownstyle]

isshin ryu stemed from matsumura seito shorin ryu which contain both types of punches horizontal and vertical as well as many punches in the naihanchi katas which are upside down. the vertical fists come from shorinji which is basically okinawan shaolin style