Blocking with Bones

[tallgeese]

I have to agree that there are certainly time that a pre-emptive strike is perfectly acceptable. We do have to be careful about how we teach the concept and that the practitioner is using good judgement in employing it, but yes, it's a concept that should be considered.

Along with that, we should also be escalating up the use of force continum ealier that our opponant if we need to. For instance, when dealing with a violent wrist grab or any sort of standing grappling situation, I see too many people in training trying to only muscle other joint responses. At this point, it's time to hit the bad guy to facilitate our joint response. It's a componant that often gets overlooked. In this case, you are indeed striking first, however, you're dealing with a form of attack and can be easily justified in the proper context.

In my opinion, taking a first strike off the table is limiting response options. There are too many variables such as size, numbers, and threat level to immediatly do away with any options you may have at your disposal.

Again, only my opinion.

[unknownstyle]

i agree, even though in karate you never make the "first" strike. but if your absolutly sure your about to be involved in a fight stop them before they have the chance to stop you. we practice a block where the block actually comes after the strike. you break the ribs with the punch and then strike nerves in the backside of the arm. i had it done to me(besides the rib breaking part) in my best friends shodan test and it hurt extremely bad.

[Bushido-Ruach]

I will agree that teaching a pre-emptive strike for the reasons listed herein might be a good idea, however, we must consider the legal ramifications of such an action. In California anyway, there is no legal cause that can be given to you if you strike first, not even in self-defense because if you strike first......you are now the aggressor. Here, they don't look at anything but the actions taken by the individual.

If I am in a verbal altercation which is seemingly escalating to a fight, I have to let him make the first move in order for it to be called self-defense, otherwise the moment I strike first, he is now on the defensive and I am looked at by the law as the attacker. Of course, there would be a time that a pre-emptive strike would be considered as still self-defense, but only if someone broke into your house while you were there. This in itself is considered to be an attack on an individual.....and then I would most certainly want my student to take a pre-emptive strike, but that would be just about the only case scenario that I can think of that wouldn't have legal implications.

Things are jacked-up here in this state as far as the law is conscerned.....I really wish I could move to another state, but finding a job to take care of your responsibilities isn't that easy out of state.

Yahoyate!

[bushido_man96]

If I were you, I would talk to some law enforcement officers and some attorneys to find out what options you do have in regards to this. There are physical clues that aggressors will give off when they intend to attack; I am sure that you are aware of these. It is when your students begin to recognize these signs that they can determine that an attack may be immenent. After preparing for this physically, it is important to prepare mentally as well, by learning how to justify yourself for your actions with words.

I feel sorry for you having to deal with the way the law is set up there.

[tallgeese]

I agree bushido man. I've said it before, and I'll continue to preach it...articulation is key. How you frame a conflict is critical in how it's view by LE types.

That being said, it is important to have an understanding of your state law in reagards to these things. Don't take someone's word for it. Do some research and find the complied statutes on-line. Read the pertenant sections youself and if needed, have a cop buddy interperate.

In sympathies Ruach, I would hate to function under the weight of the California legal system, thats for sure. Repressive is how I would classify it, from an outsiders standpoint of course. And we see how well that's working out with the crime stats from out that way.

[bushido_man96]

I agree bushido man. I've said it before, and I'll continue to preach it...articulation is key. How you frame a conflict is critical in how it's view by LE types.

Exactly. Even getting together with both an attorney and an LEO to figure out how you should articulate these things would be a wise idea.

[Bushido-Ruach]

"I would hate to function under the weight of the California legal system, thats for sure. Repressive is how I would classify it, from an outsiders standpoint of course. And we see how well that's working out with the crime stats from out that way."

You said it, Tallgeese, I work in County law enforcement, and the entire system seems set up specifically for the criminal with no regard (or very little by the system, anyway) for the victims. I don't know about other states, but here a juvenile (under 18 years old in California) can't even pick up a stick or ball point pen in self defense without being charged for it. I spoke for almost an hour with a PO co-worker who told me that when they question a minor, if the "articulate" that they icked it up to use as a weapon, the officer automatically has to arrest them.....even when the self-defense is legitimate......because of the way California law is set up.

Seven years ago we had the husband and father of three children arrested and given a 200 day sentence (he was REALLY lucky he wasn't sent to prison) because, in self-defense, after warning an intruder that broke into his home at around 1:30 AM, he shot the guy and, as luck would have it, the intruder fell backward through the livingroom window and died outside of the house. In California law, if someone breaks into your home it is considered an attack on any and everyone in the house, so he was rightfully defending himself and his family. However, also in California state law, if the intruder is killed in self defense within your home, you are safe.......but beware glass windows and such, because if the intruder dies outside the house you are arrested, also if you shoot the intruder after he leaves the house. It's messed up here.

I do agree with you, articulation is the key, and that does need to be a part of any martial arts schooling here in this state and others like it. Good advise, guys, thanks.......and be careful.

[bushido_man96]

Man, that really sounds crappy. I would move, if I were you.

[tallgeese]

Man, I second that that is a reall crappy deal. It sounds worse than I though. Bummer.

[Bushido-Ruach]

"Man, that really sounds crappy. I would move, if I were you."

Believe me, I have been trying, I just have to be able to find work before I can go. I've made several trips up to Oregon and as far as New Mexico looking for a job that would pay enough to move my family.......its not that easy.