Iron Palm

[Haru]

I have recently been studying the iron palm technique but i cannot fully understand how to concentrate enough force into the basic iron fist (or palm its name has been changed throughout time). Does anyone know how to fully concentrate enough force to make the iron palm a respectable move? As done by masters (yes i know it takes many MANY years to master this move it can do many extranordanry feats) but i know that even a basic monk trained in the basic form can concentrate quite a bit of from into it. If anyone can help e-mail me to therealcell@hotmail.com i would be interested to discus forms for this techinique.

[SaiFightsMS]

I have to admit that I know nothing about iron palm training. But, I would like to learn a bit about it. Does anyone here have any experience or a source of information?

 

 

[Iron Arahat]

It is typically shared under the guidance and supervision of an instructor.

 

There is medecine that must be used in conjunction of the training. If done wrong there are serious reprecussions.

 

There is alot of information on the web. but much of it is what I would consider bad in my training experience.

 

Best leave it to instruction from proper sources. I myself do know how to brew medicine and the proper techniques, but I do not share them outside of my school.

 

Sorry...

[Haru]

Thats ok i didnt expect anyone to share it so freely. Would proof of my school help?

[Taikudo-ka]

I believe "iron fist" typically involved punching something hard, like the proverbial bucket of stones, or steel, in the case of the infamous Grand Master Pan, resulting in calloused knuckles and deadened nerves which won't feel pain when you punch.

 

The "iron palm" involved slapping something, generally a wok of hot sand, to strengthen the palm and develop forceful open palm blows. The hot sand and the quick slap would lightly burn the upper layer of skin without deep burning or blistering, which produces a tough, calloused palm more quickly. (I don't practise iron palm, but I've had small burns from quickly touching irons or hotplates by accident, and can attest that they can leave a hard callous rather than blistering in some places.)

 

The ointment traditionally used is called something like Dit Ja Jow, and can be purchased from Chinese medicine shops and herbalists.

 

Now as to the need for or effectiveness of this type of training, I'm more dubious... Just producing a scary looking set of callouses isn't automatically going to make your punch any harder or faster. The hardness of my punch is caused by the solid bone behind it, not the little bitty layer of skin on top.

 

I think simply punching a heavy bag or like will condition your hands for striking naturally, while still developing powerful strikes and allowing you to go all out without causing too much pain or structural damage to your joints.

 

I feel if I can lay into a heavy bag bare-fisted, full-force, without hurting my hand too much, then I could do the same to a person, without the need to punch iron or concrete or burning sand, and produce a scary looking set of callouses that won't mean jack in a real fight.

 

 

[--]

Any internal strike, including the iron palm and its many variants, requires you to relax. Do not tense your muscles until the moment of impact; and even then, allow your body to whip back, giving it the penetrating power. If you try to use your own force in an iron palm, you will get only that, your own force.

 

 

[nonpuritan]

i have trained many different methods of iron palm here is what i think is the most effective

 

i started with a canvas bag filled with chinese mung beans but not too full for the bag must have some give, an important thing to remember in iron palm training is to try to not use force when striking the bag, but to let "gravity" do it's job and let your hand fall, with correct breathing technique and posture you will eventually learn to make your hand deel "heavier" as you become accustomed to chaneling qi, it is very important that you do not use force

 

iron palm training increases your power and the conditioning of your hand and the ability of your body to withstand shock, that is why gradual training is necescary for that is the only way the attributes increase in syncronous, if your poer gains exceed your conditioning gains you could be in trouble, heres an analogy, if you had a robotic arm that could lift 2 tons could you actually lift 2 tons or instead would your arm just rip off cause your body can't support the force or weight

 

i use the classic 5 strike system which consits of a slapping palm, throwing palm (back of the hand), cutting palm (knife edge), palm heel, and dotting palm (finger tips)

 

before starting you should apply a generous amount of liniment and let it seep in for a minute or so, it is actually better if you can soak your whole hands in a container filled with linement, at higher stages you should reaply or re-soak throught the training, i have some recipies for home made palm linament if anyone is interested

 

you must train with under the supervision of someone who is experienced, the people who have commented on injury are correct, but it can be even worse then just physical, cosmetic injury, improper technique can cause the qi you exert to create a backlash of negative qi in your body and if you don't learn to send this force back to the ground it can cause serious irreversible illness, you must have proper body alignment, root and breathing in order to ground out the backlashes, this can only be shown in person, if you are interested in iron palm and iron shirt techniques i strongly suggest you seek out a qualified instructor or you will regret it, the only time i would suggest trying without an instructor is if you are already well versed in internal methods and know how to align your body and spine properly to create a good root

 

eventually you will break all the beans then you refill the bag, after it becomes very easy for you to break all the beans in a short period of time you can move on to beebees, my instructor suggested to me that i don't do this until i could break all the beans in a couple of strikes, but everyone's different and that's ok as long as you stay safe

 

as far as qi kung goes, internal styles (especially bagua) uses iron palm training as nei kung unless they are not being taught properly, so i wouldn't go so far to say as qi kung is a means to reach the same goals as iron palm, you still need to strengthen the sinews, as a matter of fact the internal styles go much more indepth into iron palm training than do the external styles, most internal stylists use many different linements through out thier training, the initial stages use hot linements, which bring qi to the hands, and in advanced stages they use cold linements which are used to condense the qi into the bones for more focused power, this of course must be in conjunction with marrow washin excercises

[lbouchet]

Wow, that sounds great. When I was in kung-fu, the instructor gave me a canvas sand bag and, of course, the liquid concoction to put on my hands (rumoured to contain donkey urine!). I'd spend a half hour every day in horse-stance position, letting my hands fall on the bag, slapping it with palm and backside. This was a while ago, but you know I never did notice any callouses or nerve damage. I did however notice incredible force whenever I gave someone a casual high-five! Their entire arm shot back and their palm turned beet red. Imagine slapping someone across the face with that? Or blowing an ear drum with a slap to the side of the head?

 

In ninjutsu there's a similar sort of training, though I haven't encountered mention of it at the dojo. One old ninja master was known to be able to tear the bark off a tree with a casual swipe of his fingers.