Deceptive Conversations

[Johnlogic121]

Everyone who does Chinese Kung Fu gets introduced to the concept of deceptive fighting in some manner or another. For a majority of Kung Fu styles, deceiving the opponent can be the key to landing a successful strike or even the key to a successful victory. I have read that some styles consider deceptive fighting to be as much as 45% of their total fighting strategy. A common example is shifting through a series of stances that suggest you are intending to launch an attack from a certain animal form, when you actually shift at the last moment to something totally unexpected, such as going from Tiger to Crane or Snake to Monkey. When the opponent is expecting the hand he gets the foot in the first example and when he is following the hands in the second example he gets the leg sweep. In Mang Chaun Kung Fu, they have the concept of "deceptive conversations." This is a manner of conduct on the part of the student and teacher and everybody else in the whole Kung Fu school and the larger Kung Fu clan. The general idea is to conceal facts that could potentially be used against you by an enemy streetfighter who hears about you and to invent ideas that will send other martial artists down false pathways that use up their training time while you are concentrating on really getting to be a better fighter. I can think of several examples of things that were said amongst my friends and the larger social group, but I don't want to go into the intricate details. My high school had a lot of gang activity, and in a violent environment with many fights, some of this deceptive conversation work seemed to be a valuable defensive tool. When my good friends began lying to me, however, it seemed like a terrible idea. Overall, the most interesting thing about the exercise is that it challenges you to carefully judge whom you trust and to thoroughly evaluate what you believe. Sometimes our sifu would even throw things at us in class that were indentifably silly, like martial arts moves that resembled moves in video games. He kept challenging us to unravel the mysteries of martial arts for ourselves with personal research outside of class. In some parts of China, the stories that circulate in the larger social arena can determine whether or not you get involved in fights as well as establish or ruin your reputation. For example, rumors about whom you are dating and how well you fight can attract or repel rivals. What does the forum think about the deceptive conversations concept? I am given to understand that the Shaolin developed that art of deceptive conversation to a very high degree as they disseminated martial art tips to people down through the centuries. If a consulting warrior represented a dishonorable society, he got bad information that sounded really great, and thus, evil powers never got the powerful secrets that the Shaolin temple could otherwise have provided. I don't know how widespread the misinformation campaigns really were, but history may never know. Do any other Kung Fu styles practice deceptive conversation principles, such as never revealing your true training injuries outside of your own group? Are such tactics appropriate for modern times, in which things are generally more peaceful? I'm curious about any feedback. -JL

[NewEnglands_KyoSa]

I've heard of deceptive conversations and i think that deceptive conversations are a valuable tool for life not just MAs. I usually never brag or tell of injuries which i can probably attribute to just stubbornness and a superwoman attitude that i have, but i later realized that not telling people worked to my advantage in some situations.

Like say i was a basketball player for instance and i had a busted left shoulder and i really shouldnt be playing, but i am. Now i definately don't wanna go up to my opponent who's going to be covering me and go hey, i busted up my left shoulder real bad i need surgery i just need to get through this game, can you make sure you go easy on it? hahah, you'd never do that because you never know what kind of person you're talking to. okay, maybe that opponent i talked to was nice and listened to me but what if she wasn't...i'd be outta the game!

I thinks it's a good tool in all facets of life home life, family life, sports life, MA life, work life, etc.

[bushido_man96]

I don't know how well something like this would work. It really depends on how you take everything that is told to you. If you are a skeptic, then it may not matter to you what others say. I don't know how many of us actually spend time training for what someone in a different style does, unless you train for a fight. Anymore, the idea of cross training is so deep that many people have trained to be experienced in all the ranges of combat. To that end, you can be prepared for most anything.