Tournament Politics ?

[pittbullJudoka]

He had an attitude in the ring but Ibelieve we all do. Yeah he was a pretty cool guy after we talked awhile. He even asked what I thought about the bad calls and I told him my opinion. A lot of school are out for the trophey count and don't care what it take to get it. I would want to judge students from my dojo fairly and make them earn their spot.

[bushido_man96]

I agree with you. Unfortunately, there are those bad apples out there.

[Tiger1962]

Ok, after asking around, I finally found someone to explain it to me. I still can't comprehend the breakdown. But the following is what I was told. Let me know if this makes sense to you - keep in mind its regarding form/kata/hyung not sparring:

"You get 5 scores. The highest score and the lowest score get dropped. So in reality you only get 3 scores.

After the averages are made they decide who the winner is. If there's a tie that's when the low score and high score get added back in; to break the tie.

When he made the mistake, the judges weren't allowed to drop their scores. The judges had to score him as if he didn't make a mistake. The score keeper than averages everything in and deducts 1/10 of a point from the competitor's score. So if he had a 22.2 his score would be 22.1 That's why he got 2nd place. If the judges would've been allowed to drop the scores themselves instead of scoring him the same and just deducting 1/10 of a point, he definitely wouldn't have won. "

[ninjanurse]

This is one of the reasons why I do not like tournaments. Even as an official you deal with politics and those who discriminate....and there is nothing you can do about it except choose not to participate. Unfortunately, as a school owner, I am obligated to attend association events and support my students so I am unable to avoid the whole thing!

[bushido_man96]

Those rules sound bunk to me. If you are going to drop the high and low, which I have seen, then don't add them back to break ties. For tie breakers, each competitor does the same form again. Then, the winner is chosen. If one guy messes it up, then he is stuck with 2nd place. That's the way I see it. I would not return to that tourney.

[NewEnglands_KyoSa]

My experience is that, that is the correct way to score(dropping high and low and then averaging) but when you get a tie the two competitors tied do their forms side by side and get scored again. that's just one way i've seen it done though. there are many many ways of course.

[humble monk]

To me, tournaments serve only to expose you to other schools and styles. I've made alot of friends at tourneys, and I've gotten robbed many times. I no longer attend, as my age bracket is thinner than the rest, and the last one I fought in combined upper, lower belts and mens/ womens. I was paired against a yellow belt while I was testing for black in a month, and my next would have been a woman who was very uncomfortable with the idea. I bowed out and was done at that point.

I agree the politics are visible nowhere moreso than tournaments.

[ShoriKid]

think anyone who's been to more than one tourney has seen politics/judge's bias in action. I had two bad cases hit me about...-thinks- 10 years back?

One, a striking tourney where forearms were apparntly legal scoring targets in my first match. Then, as a 1st kyu in the same tourney, where the brown belts were thrown in the the black belts, I fought the lead student from the host school. the guy was a 2nd dan and after three solid front and side kicks to the midsection as he charged in I couldn't score. With chest protectors on, he was stopped dead in his tracks each time. I got warned for unsportsman like conduct when he charged in, I side stepped and side kicked him in the kidney hard enough to put him on his face. That was when i stopped, took out my mouth piece and asked if that was a point. The people there cheered, the judge gave me a penalty point.

The other was a USJJA tourney in the grappling section. I kept my brown belt on, the rest of the field went and put on white belts. I got asked by the judge seperating the weight classes how I was a beginning grappler with a brown belt. I told him I didn't train in a grappling style. He, with a very cocky tone, asked just what that style was. My response, "Good old fashioned, stand up Shorin Ryu." The same guy was asking people their weights and he told three guys, that he called by name, that they had surely dropped the 5 or 6 pounds that put them in the next weight class up, that they would be in the lower class.

So, yeah, it happens, reguardless of style, tourney or format. Sad really. Some set ups though, help keep more of it out of the mix. Dropping high and low scores in forms etc.

[Tiger1962]

It's a shame really because I'm sure there are people out there like me who like to attend tournaments just for the sheer fun of competing. It's exciting, you get to watch others compete and maybe even learn a few things by watching. You get to meet people and make new friends who enjoy the same thing as you. It's sort of like a really small scale olympics... It doesn't matter if you win or lose as long as the match is run fairly. But when it isn't, that kind of throws it all out the window for me.

It also ticks me off when the judges insist on "no hard contact" and you obey those rules however your opponent does not AND wails you one AND does not get called on it.

That just makes me wanna take off the gloves and open a can on him.

[axispower]

Yep. We hit around 20 tournaments a year and see significant bias in some circuits. Sometimes it's black belts judging competitors from their own schools. Sometimes it's based on regions within a circuit (e.g. folks in the northwest region favoring competitors from the northwest over those from the southeast), and sometimes it even breaks down on racial lines.

In addition, there are just a lot of bad judges out there. Some circuits grab any black belt and let him judge - without regard to whether he has judged tournament karate in the past, what style he is judging, etc.

On the other hand, every parent feels like their kid gets the short end of the call a lot of time. After you've seen as many tournaments as I have you come to realize that EVERYONE thinks the judging is bad - which means it must be going in your favor at least HALF of the time. As much as it pains me to say it - bad judging for one is bad judging for all - and in some sort of sad, sick way that is somehow . . . well . . . fair.

Ugh.