Mario Sperry

[bristopen]

He was one of the first to speak out against the propoganda machine of the Gracies.

What does this mean ?

[kenpo4life]

I mean that the marketing of the Gracie family early on was ludicrous. They had everyone believing that 90% of all fights go the ground. When the demand for GJJ grew too large to fill, Sport Jujitsu guys flocked here and taught the sport of jujitsu. They teach/taught a lot of techniques that look cool but will get your hurt in the street.

While the Gracies were raking it in hand over fist, and at the same time, acting like they were the only qualified game in town, Sperry was doing a lot. He wrote articles about how to alter BJJ to street situations, He talked about clinching up Greco0Roman/Thai styles instead of trying to shoot double and single leg takedowns. He also put out a VERY good serious of DVD, including the moves that the Gracie family wouldnt teach non-Brazilians.

On top of all that he has helped develop some of the best athletes from Brasil. The Top Team.

[bristopen]

I agree with you but partly.

There was a lot of marketing for brazilian jiu jitsu by the Gracie's because of the early UFC events. People didn't understand how a skinny guy like Royce could beat Ken Shamrock and Dan Severn.

People always take things as a whole. They compare styles. That's not good. There's no perfect or superior style as they are all made by men. BJJ is not one hundred per cent effective but it has a bunch of techniques that you'll find nowhere else.

Some techniques can hurt seriously on hard ground but remember, the goal of jiu jitsu is to to take care of yourself when you're put to the ground and not to put yourself on the ground and try to fight. If you're fighting for life you'll forget about the pain. It's not meant to be the only art that one must know. I think one must know how to fight standing up and also on the ground.

[kenpo4life]

BJJ is not one hundred per cent effective but it has a bunch of techniques that you'll find nowhere else.

I dont really agree with that one. I have seen some OLD judo and catch wrestling stuff, and I have yet to see an original technique in BJJ. I saw an omoplata in India from the 1800's I think it was Phil Miglierese that put it in Grappling Magazine back in the day.

[ps1]

BJJ is not one hundred per cent effective but it has a bunch of techniques that you'll find nowhere else.

I dont really agree with that one. I have seen some OLD judo and catch wrestling stuff, and I have yet to see an original technique in BJJ. I saw an omoplata in India from the 1800's I think it was Phil Miglierese that put it in Grappling Magazine back in the day.

I agree. There is nothing new to it. The Gracie's have simply been the best at marketing it and getting it popular. That's not a bad thing, just the way it is.

In reading many of the books the Gracie's have written, they readily admit to taking techniques from several sources. Rolls took the Americana from wrestling. Helio took the Kimura lock from Kimura. Rolls and Rickson added the leg locks of Sambo. They were just skilled at recognizing what works for their way of movement. Then they took the move and incorporated it. The art still continues to grow in this way. That's the beauty of it. While many martial arts frown upon adding new material or changing things that may no longer be effective. BJJ thrives upon evolution and constantly sharpening it's moves.

[tallgeese]

I think you're correct ps1 and that is part of it's beauty. It's an art that continues to evolve. More should probibly try. It's also very easy to plug into what you're already good at to make you a more complete fighter.

I'd also say that does it matter that it's movements have been borrowed from elsewhere. Humans have had thousands of years to learn how to hurrt each other. Some one, some where, has probibly done them all at one time or another. Take a look at how similar the small joint movments are from Japaneese jj to Chin-na and Hapkido. There are only so many ways to turn a hguman wrist to break it. Same goes with grappling arts too, they just haven't enjoyed the popularity of stand up arts until recently. Yes, the Gracies marketed it best. Good for them, they got us all rolling in the early 90's and most of us are better off for it.

Yes, you could find all those movements in other, older systems, but the time it would take is huge comparted to the package that jj system will give it to you in. Why re-invent the wheel.

Lot's of stand up systems have done the same. The brand I come out of is constantly stealing stuff and calling it research as well. As long as it fits into your operational directive and you become competant enough in it's performance to utilize it well, who cares where it came from. Lot's of systems now have even added ground fighting concepts to what they are doing, again, not a bad idea.

[bristopen]

Ok.

I know that BJJ is japanese JJ modified, so it's obvious that it will not be completely different from it. But it's difficult to say that Helio invented nothing at all. That's what I meant when I said "a bunch of techniques". And don't forget that assebling all these techniques and making a system from them is in itself a wonderful invention.

[tallgeese]

I agree. Formatting into a chohesive pattern is probibly a more impressive feat that coming up with the latest "super move" or such.

[MMA_Jim]

Ok.

I know that BJJ is japanese JJ modified, so it's obvious that it will not be completely different from it. But it's difficult to say that Helio invented nothing at all. That's what I meant when I said "a bunch of techniques". And don't forget that assebling all these techniques and making a system from them is in itself a wonderful invention.

Helio did quite an amazing job. About the only thing that Japanese Ju Jitsu and Brazilian Jiu Jitsu have in common is the name (albeit spelled incorrectly by the Brazilians). His innovations to Ju Jitsu/ Judo were just as incredible as were Kano's innovations when he derived Judo from Ju Jitsu

[kenpo4life]

Helio did quite an amazing job. About the only thing that Japanese Ju Jitsu and Brazilian Jiu Jitsu have in common is the name

That is not entirely true. Dont drink the Kool-Aid my friend. There are dozens of styles of jiu-jitsu. All you have to do is study some of the old texts, the techniques are almost identical. BJJ is mostly about transitions, but even that is nothing new. Look into Kalaripayattu and some older Eastern systems. There is nothing new under the sun. The Gracies marketed their interpretation of the system. But we all know by now that they were not the only students of Conde Coma.