I am a Magnet for Trouble!!

[bushido_man96]

Every violent act has a 'cause' and I don't buy into the notion that these 'causes' are mysterious. They may seem random sometimes, but I believe this 'randomness', even when truly 'random' is capable of being forseen and avoided with awareness 99.5% of the time. But maintaining awareness takes practice too, and is a skill that may be harder than learning martial arts!

I don't agree that every act of violence has a cause. Unless you refer to someone being mentally unbalanced as a cause. There are people out there who just gravitate towards violence. A sociopath doesn't need a reason to resort to violence. I agree that awareness is an important trait to train, too. However, violence can come from unsuspected sources. For instance, many rapes are committed by someone that the victim knows. I am not saying you shouldn't be aware when you are surrounded by friends, but most of us don't think of ourselves as potential victims when we are surrounded by our friends.

[Taylor]

Well, just becaue the cause is unknown, doesn't mean there isn't one. In each case, whether it be a mentally unbalanced person or criminal, there is most certainly a cause for their behavior, though it may seem illogical to us, and perhaps unreasonable and may even be unknown to them. This doesn't mean there isn't a cause, however.

That also doesn't mean a person can't learn to identify the intention a person walks with using simple observation and awareness. As we know, people tend to wear their intentions in their speech, action and even the way they walk. We learn that in sparring every day.

So, I hope you aren't trying to say that an experienced martial artist can't learn to identify a mentally unbalanced person from a mile away. I'm sorry, I don't buy that notion.

This goes to a much deeper issue that I think we need to look into as 'martial artists'. I believe the martial artist must work to root out the common tendency to perceive ourselves as 'victims'. A martial artist is NEVER a victim. A warrior is never a 'victim' of their adversary. They may be a 'failure', having lost the battle, but never a victim. Very different. Perhaps his adversary simply out-smarted him. By becoming a warrior, however, he has accepted that this is his life. A martial artist, I believe must strive for this psychological position. Either a martial artist is striving to be a warrior or is a warrior, otherwise, why train?

This concept of a 'random' and 'unforseen' violence implies a subtle but profound belief that the 'randomness of the universe' is doing something to us. This implies we are a 'victim' of the universe. Is a warrior anyone's victim in their own self-concept, even the Univserses? Hmmm... no, I don't think so.

We can learn to be much more aware of our environment than we take for granted, and control much more what 'happens' to us. This isn't even mystical stuff, it's simple psychotherapy.

[bushido_man96]

That also doesn't mean a person can't learn to identify the intention a person walks with using simple observation and awareness. As we know, people tend to wear their intentions in their speech, action and even the way they walk. We learn that in sparring every day.

So, I hope you aren't trying to say that an experienced martial artist can't learn to identify a mentally unbalanced person from a mile away. I'm sorry, I don't buy that notion.

I am not saying that we can't identify a mentally unbalanced person from a mile away. However, not everyone will show it. Nobody suspected BTK. I am sure he came into contact with Martial Artists in his lifetime as well. Maybe they saw it, maybe they didn't. We won't ever really know. For most of the public, however, he was not suspect.

This goes to a much deeper issue that I think we need to look into as 'martial artists'. I believe the martial artist must work to root out the common tendency to perceive ourselves as 'victims'. A martial artist is NEVER a victim. A warrior is never a 'victim' of their adversary. They may be a 'failure', having lost the battle, but never a victim. Very different. Perhaps his adversary simply out-smarted him. By becoming a warrior, however, he has accepted that this is his life. A martial artist, I believe must strive for this psychological position. Either a martial artist is striving to be a warrior or is a warrior, otherwise, why train?

This I agree with. No argument here from me.

This concept of a 'random' and 'unforseen' violence implies a subtle but profound belief that the 'randomness of the universe' is doing something to us. This implies we are a 'victim' of the universe. Is a warrior anyone's victim in their own self-concept, even the Univserses? Hmmm... no, I don't think so.

We can learn to be much more aware of our environment than we take for granted, and control much more what 'happens' to us. This isn't even mystical stuff, it's simple psychotherapy.

I don't fall into the realm of people who believe in "fate" or things like that. I do think that we are very much in control of our lives. However, we can't control everything around us.

Here is an arguement I will make. Who's to say that the sociopath does not work to conceal his behavior so that he appears normal to everyone? Who's to say that he isn't a Martial Artist, either? Not all Martial Artists are good guys. Sometimes, you can't tell that someone is a criminal, or has criminal intent, just by looking at them. Especially if they are aware of such things themselves, and practice just as much at reading other people the same way.

[Taylor]

Certainly!

By and large, however, criminals are kind of stupid. I know, the James Bond movies tell us otherwise, but most criminals are really dumb. But I must respond to your point more completely, since in the more philosophical terms we have taken this discussion you raise an important point, and on more subtle levels, such as work-place conflicts and dealing with sociopathic co-workers who use nefarious means to destroy you to get your position or discredit you because they see you as a threat, your point is siginficantly more relevant than in physical confrontation, so I MUST respond to this well made point, and I must also acknowledge that the relevance of your point isn't completely lost in the physical realm either, simply profoundly reduced by the practical reality of violent sociopaths.

Ultimately, this world is a battleground. Most hide from the battle. If we wish to walk the warrior path, we do not. We ackowledge this and dive in. There will most certainly be sociopaths or people with no honor who have intelligence and skill in conflict who seek power and dominion. One question arises from this, is this a world with honor and ethics or is it a world where power by any means necessary is the only rule? If it is to be a world with ethics and honor, we must NEVER give in to the notion that we are helpless before this enemy, that there is nothing we can do to prevent him from hiding from us or that he can ultimately defeat us. Victory is a state of mind. Yet we must, as is implied by your excellent argument, never underestimate the enemy either.

We must never cease, therefore, to strive to perfect ourselves in deafeating the enemy, it is for the sake of everyone around us that we are victorious. For their sake, and ours, we must NEVER give in to the notion that it is IMPOSSIBLE to identify, or defeat the enemy, no matter how profoundly challenging it is to identify or defeat the enemy. To give up on a battle-ground is to be dead. So this is simply a state of mind I WILL NOT allow myself to entertain, and I encourage my fellow warriors never to entertain this line of thinking either.

Though, I acknowledge your point that when facing a challenging adversary, it is quite possible for him to defeat you. But if he does, it will be because of MY weakness, MY unconsciousness, MY error. Tsun Tsu says, "...those skilled in warfare make themselves invincible and then wait for the enemy to become vulnerable. Being invincible depends on oneself, but the enemy becoming vulnerable depends on himself." Strive to make oneself invincible every day. When you err, notice it, admit it and thank God, Buddha or whomever than an enemy didn't see it. Strive harder for invulnerability each day. Miyamoto Musashi says, "victory over the self of the previous day is the greatest victory."

So these are the principles I'm pushing on.

[bushido_man96]

They are good principles to push on. I could not agree more. Neither am I saying we should give up trying to identify the enemy. I am simply stating that it will not always be easily dectable.

[Bushido-Ruach]

There are some good thoughts and principles here.

Part of being a warrior is having the insight and wisdom to size up your opponent both physically and as much mentally as you can within seconds of the possible on-coming confrontation, and knowing whether to defend yourself by either physical means . . . or by flight. A good warrior isn't going to walk into a battle that he reasonably knows he won't walk away from, unless it is an honor issue (yes, I believe that there are some things worth laying down my life for), they are few and far in-between, but they are there nonetheless.

This guy (to me) seems to be a non-thinking fellow with some emotional and / or mental issues. It's probably a good thing that you didn't raise your hand to him. I had a friend in high school once that was punched by some guy on coke...he got up off the ground and wailed into this guy and he didn't feel a thing, so my friend backed off in amazement that this guy didn't try to kill him afterwards. He got luck that day in my opinion....but we were just stupid kids back then (gee, I wonder where he is today?).

[bushido_man96]

By and large, however, criminals are kind of stupid. I know, the James Bond movies tell us otherwise, but most criminals are really dumb.

This is a generalization that could get one hurt or killed. Criminals aren't necessarily stupid. Most criminals probably have the same IQ as most people. There are some that are above the line, and that are below the line, but at any rate, they aren't all dumb. Career criminals usually have a pretty good idea of how to plan things out, and prepare contingencies in case authorities show up. They may not be book smart, but there are other forms of intelligence, and this can't be underestimated.

[Taylor]

How's this for a dangerous generalization:

Some events don't have a cause.

Each interaction between two individuals has an entire set of causes attached to it which are original and distinct, from walking out the door in the morning to the moment the desire to interact to the moment an interaction begins.

Two people don't just teleport from nowhere into a spot and suddenly started fighting each other for no reason. In the most 'random' of circumstance, two people need to at least engage a chain of events that leads them to a particular place at a particular time to be able to be in the same place at the same time. Then there is the factor that puts at least one of these individuals in a psychological state of mind to WANT to fight at that particular moment. An adult can't get to be an adult if they walk around their enitre lives fighting the first person they see all the time. There is a cause that makes the individual choose to fight this person and not that person. What that cause is varies according to the particular individual, the time and place. So, now we're moving back from the general into particulars.

So, yes, I suppose I was generalizing, but since we were talking inside a generalization, it's hard to be particular. Let's go back to a particular scenario:

I don't see how the original poster didn't notice some big bubba walking up to him in a mood. You're not going to call that a moment of mindlessness? You're going to excuse that and enable that weakness in a fellow warrior? Forget that, I like the guy, so I'm going to reflect the truth to my brother: You spaced out man, try to be more conscious. Not that I'm perfect, but you did ask, and this is a battlefield and we are warriors.

I think anyone would have admit that if he had been remained aware of his environment, he would have seen the big bubba walking up to him, seen from the body language that this guy was in a mood and looking for trouble, and got back into his car, locked the door and got on the cell phone to 911 or drove away or waited until bubba went away. But he spaced out. No big deal, happens to the best of us, but I'm not going to call it "good technique", either.

BTW, on that note, I appreciate your challenges to my position on this point, Bushido. You don't run into someone who can approach a position in such a thoughtful, yet intense way, yet remain emotionally centered in the process. I'd like to know where you train and who your Sensei is.

[NewEnglands_KyoSa]

By and large, however, criminals are kind of stupid. I know, the James Bond movies tell us otherwise, but most criminals are really dumb.

This is a generalization that could get one hurt or killed. Criminals aren't necessarily stupid. Most criminals probably have the same IQ as most people. There are some that are above the line, and that are below the line, but at any rate, they aren't all dumb. Career criminals usually have a pretty good idea of how to plan things out, and prepare contingencies in case authorities show up. They may not be book smart, but there are other forms of intelligence, and this can't be underestimated.

Agreed. There's a good number of criminals who are actually very intelligent. Otherwise, there'd be no need for high security prisons, because if they weren't smart we wouldn't worry about them escaping and there also wouldn't be so many unsolved cases out there either. I think the correct generalization to make is most, not all, criminals are ill. There is something wrong in their mind to make them become criminals, but you could be the most ill criminal in the world and have an IQ well above that of your average human being. This usually applies to murders and things of the sort but can also range to other compulsive acts, etc.

[Taylor]

Well, I think my generalization was certainly a generalization. I mean, I've actually worked with criminals and trained with a lot of people who worked in the Prison system, including Folsom Prison, so my generalization isn't completely unfounded, but you're right, it's a generalization. There are a lot of intelligent sociopathic criminals.