elbow strike confusion

[northerndragon]

I am posting this question to see what I may be missing:

Q: What is the difference between the Mae Empi Uchi & Mae Mawashi Empi Uchi, WHEN THEY BOTH start from above the right hip? (*in a Left

Front-Stance).

1.) Mae Mawashi Empi Uchi - Round elbow strike made to hit opponent's side of body.

-versus-

2.) Mae Empi Uchi - Forward elbow strike made to hit opponent's chest or side of body.

Questions:

Assuming both elbow strikes are executed from a Left Front Stance, left foot in front: ...

1. Are both right fists STARTING from above the right hip?

&

2. One is a "round/arcing" elbow strike while the other is a "forward" moving elbow strike. They both seem to follow the exact same path (?), if starting from above the (Shotokan) hip.

A Sensei told me that Shotokan executes all strikes, generally, from above the hips. (While other lineages may in fact start a strike from below the ARMPIT. I know for a fact that Seido Karate starts strikes from the armpits).

I found by trial-and-error, that if I conduct the Mae Empi Uchi, from a left front stance, right fist directly below the right-armpit, that it "FEELS" to be more forward in nature, versus a round elbow strike beginning above the right-hip.

I need to stress the PATH of both elbow strikes for clarification: The right fists cross the chest towards the left nipple in execution of either elbow strikes, Mae Empi Uchi OR Mae Mawashi Empi Uchi.

Food for thought, but I'm sure that I am just doing this incorrectly, somehow.

Anyone here train in Shotokan that can give an easy answer to this?

regards,

Eric

[bushido_man96]

It sounds to me that the forward elbow strike should be more of a thrusting technique, whereas the round elbow is an arcing technique. They may start at the same spot, but I don't think they have to. The thrusting elbow could be accompanied by a reinforced push with the off hand on the fist of the thrusting elbow.

[northerndragon]

'Bushido Man 96',

Thank you for post. My perception too; specifically that the forward elbow strike should be less arcing, more of a thrust. Where my confusion occurs is that it is supposed to, by Shotokan tradition, start-&-end in the same place theoretically. This ENDING position essentially makes it less of a thrust and more of an arc. You are correct though that it does not necessarily have to start at the same position as the Mae Mawashi Empi Uchi.

The entire sequence of movements when the right fist crosses the chest towards the opposite pectoral/nipple is whereby the thrust loses thrust and become more of an arc. (as in the Mae Mawashi Empi Uchi)

To make it a thrust one has to essentially make the elbow's end position off-of/away-from the opposite pectoral/nipple.

Adding a reinforced push with the opposite hand changes the Mae Empi Uchi into a Yoko Empi Uchi (side elbow strike), of "sorts".

[Zanshin]

I think that you should ask you instructor for his/her definition. Both have validity but, if you are talking about specifics (ie application from a kata) then that may be different.

Often moves in basics (that are extracted from Kata), are practiced out of context and then (more woryingly) taken as a "standardised" way!

My take on the whole "Enpi" thing starts a little earlier on the evolutionary track anyway, as "Enpi" does not mean elbow it means to "thrust" or "force", but the use of the elbow or "Hiji" is a good example of how to manifest this power.

Importantly though, you should be able to discern the difference between a forward elbow strike and and a "mawashi" or circular strike.

Very different body mechanics but both have equal value in a punch up!