Problem students

[Budderfly]

Thanks for replying. The problem is never around in the beginning. We have an intro month where the students try for free and we can also see how they interact with others. This problem was never an issue then, but after a few months it started and it escalated after that.

True, we are probably a little more "lax" with adults then we are with the kids, and perhaps we should step up the discipline for the adults. Our school relys on positive reinforcement and using influence over authority. We know and understand that we aren't here to be their buddies so we make sure to set the boundries early.

We aren't by no means a "mcdojo" or just looking for the cash when it comes to new students. Our philosophy is anyone can learn martial arts, so long as they want to learn. We also want to develop self-defense, fitness and character building skills to enrich people's lives. We don't want to come across as "elitists" and force people out because they don't fit our school but if there are students that are making others uncomfortable, angry or are disrecpectful then obviously we have to do something. Fortunately in the past, we've been lucky and haven't had to deal with anything like this before - which is why I am asking for advice.

I appreciate all your replies and suggestions.

*bows*

[Budderfly]

Did you say in your last post that you have other potential "poison" students? Respectfully, I would give you this advice. Ask yourself why the students are able to become poison students. What atmosphere in your class allows them to behave this way?

We don't have any other "poison" students currently but we were just thinking in the future in case we run across something like this again.

[NewEnglands_KyoSa]

You said there are rules in your dojo. The way it goes with rules in our dojo, is if you break one, you get punished, depending upon the severity of the so called 'crime' in question. Now punishing does not mean you have to beat him up, but make him understand your point. When my students speak out, child or adult i just stop what im saying and say 'excuse me, i will not answer questions if you do not raise your hand first' and that usually fixes the 'speaking out' issue. As for going hard, we usually give warnings, if i see it occuring i'll say "sir, take it easy", if he keeps going "sir, good control please" and then the third time, i drop the sir, and the nice girl attitude and tell him that if he simply cannot control himself that he can sit down and join us again when we do individual drills, and that usually squashes that. no need to humiliate, or beat up anyone, but definately follow through with your rules so he, and other students understand that rules are rules and no matter who you are, you must abide by them.

from the sounds of it, i'd keep him, only because i have a strong feeling that you can reform him. he may be a trouble student, but i think he is 'fixable' with the right attitude ajustment and guidance. if not, and you give him a second chance and he blows it, sit him down after the class and tell him that, that was his second chance and you don't give thirds.

if youre opposed to any of these ideas, sit him down before you let him rejoin, tell him your troubles/issues and if he truly wants to rejoin, he'll abide by what you say. let him know, that one more strike, and he's done. that way youre fair to everyone, him and yourself, you give him another chance, and if he does you wrong, boom, gone.

good luck. students are a tough thing to handle, especially the rambunctious ones.

[tori]

I have a different view of this situation. I would not allow him to return to my class. I wouldn't call him poison, but I would definitely say that he is a trouble student. If his "karate" class was so good, why did he leave it? Even if he left because of outside reasons, my guess would be that he behaved disrespectfully to that instructor and his students also. You will probably lose his son, but if you care about sharing your martial arts knowledge with those who are willing to learn, follow the rules, and are respectful, you just may have to say goodbye. If I was a student in a school where a person consistently interrupted my training time, wasting my money spent to learn, and watched the head instructor continue to allow this to happen, I would leave. That type of behavior is inexcusable in well respected, disciplined dojo and you guys have dealt long enough with it. Cut your ties to him and his son.

[Sasori_Te]

I hope that I didn't imply that you were a "mcdojo".

It's just that I've been teaching for 15 years now and have run across this situation several times. Unfortunately, in every case in my experience I had to get rid of the student in question. In one case it was an entire family of 5 beacause the dad was a jerk and wouldn't calm down. Good luck to you. I know these situations can be tough.

[Senseimurphy]

We had a student like this also. Nobody liked being in class with him because of his attitude. My instructor and I sat down with him in the office to discuss his behavior and of course his defenses instantly went up. He actually said something like "I dont appriciate you taking away from my work out time" The meeting didnt work at all. The next week we did some sanchin partner drills. Our "poison" student was paired up with my 72 year old instructor who effortlessly threw him across the dojo! The next class was a sparring class and I was asked (not to hurt him of course) just to "play" with him, my instructors code word for hummiliate. I know you dont want your school to be represet ideas like this, I dont either, but sometimes and only sometimes it really works. since then he is one of the most dedicated, respectfull, hard working students we have. I'm glad we didnt just get rid of him.

[bushido_man96]

Sometime those lessons in humility really work.

[NewEnglands_KyoSa]

very true!

[NewEnglands_KyoSa]

actually, as i was posting that i remembered a story, that has stuck with my for a very long time. many many years ago my school ran a 'fight night' and i think it was like monday nights or something and it was after our 7-8 class. we'd gear up and just fight all night long, it was great. and awesome work out and by the time you got out you knew how to fight. well, one night we had a green belt try it. he was the usual cocky jacked up high school kid. well as i was fighting with my partner over one side of the room, he was paired up with my master instructor. now this guy is a cop and has been in ma's for 25-30 years. so it was safe to say my instructor was kicking his butt real good. and as a cocky high school kid would...he got frusterated to the max. so he came in kind of hard and as he swung to punch my instructor stepped out of the way and planted a side kick right on his ribs. so he went stumbling about 10-12 feet behind him, and he got so mad that he charged at my instructor...all of a sudden you see my instructor drop to the floor at the last second, and log roll! and the kid went flying. it was the most hysterical and humbling moment i have ever seen. you're fighting a master instructor but you dont get taken out by his fists nor his feet, you got taken out by his log roll!!!

i must say, one of THE best lessons i've ever learned from the sidelines. and ps- the kid didnt come back!

[bushido_man96]

A log roll. That is pretty funny!