Problem students

[Budderfly]

Been along time since I have visited the forums. Hope you are all doing well!

We are in a bit of a predicament.

We had a student in our adult class. He is about 40 years old and has terrible social skills. His motor skills are are a challange, but he also likes to go very hard. He also tends to "challange" the instructor on why things are done a certain way and claiming that it won't work and in his old karate school he did it another way. We have tried to explain that we are a mixed martial art school and not karate so curriculum will be different than what he was taught. If you try to talk to him, his defenses come up and he gets angry and blames his attitude on other people or other things. We don't like labelling people, but he is a "poison" student.

His attitude has caused many other good students to leave. They have a very hard time working with him. After his year agreement ended, he took a break. Now he is thinking of coming back and we are trying to rebuild our adult class as it was small and the atmosphere was already somewhat awkward with the different personalities and physical levels. We've almost got it back to a comfortable level but if he comes back to the class, it will go back to being the way it was and we worry about new student retention.

We want to help people with their goals but we are also trying to run a business and are unsure of what we should do or say to him before he re-joins. Any suggestions? Your help is appreciated.

[bushido_man96]

You should sit down and talk to him about how things will run in your school. If he has questions, then he should perhaps raise them with you after the class, and not just say "this is how I did it before, and it is better." If he likes something better, then that is great. However, let him know why you do what you do, and that he may be able to benefit from it as well.

If you really think his mentality is not right for your school, then tell him this, and send him on his way. You don't want to sacrifice 5 good students for one bad student.

[Throwdown0850]

yeah, that wouldn't fly at all in my class.. I would set him down and tell the student about how he should act in the dojo.. like Bushido said, it is getting so bad that other students are actually leaving?? sometimes you just have to be the "mean guy" and show him the door .. hope this helps mate..

[Budderfly]

True. We know we have to tell him why he can't continue in class. The thing that makes it harder is that his 15 year old son is also in the class. (He has some learning disabilities but we can work with him.) So we'll still be seeing the man often.

I guess what I need help with is how to tactfully tell him. I can already foresee his temper flaring up. I'm the program director for my school and my job is positive customer service. Both me and the Master will have to talk to him together, but we know we must approach this with caution. I've never had to deal with someone like this before. I don't want to hurt his feelings but I also don't want to hurt the class atmosphere.

What a pickle.

[The BB of C]

May I ask what kind of learning dissabilities the son has?

My suggestion would be to show him up. If I was teaching this class, and he flarred up at me like that, I would stop the class, have everyone circle around, and spar with him, and humiliate him at the same time. Nothing delivers a big slice of humble pie like being beaten nearly senseless by an instructor in front of people like that. What he does after that is his call.

[Throwdown0850]

May I ask what kind of learning dissabilities the son has?

My suggestion would be to show him up. If I was teaching this class, and he flarred up at me like that, I would stop the class, have everyone circle around, and spar with him, and humiliate him at the same time. Nothing delivers a big slice of humble pie like being beaten nearly senseless by an instructor in front of people like that. What he does after that is his call.

you cant be serious??

[KarateEd]

Like any classroom, the dojang/dojo should have certain rules and all students should follow them. While occasional violations will occur (and are usually forgivable), someone that consistently breaks the rules is destroying the learning environment that those rules were instituted to preserve. As bushido_man96 said, I think you'll have to explain to him the rules (maybe make him sign something that states he has read and understands the rules), explain the purpose of those rules, that he is training in a different system (his old school is just that....his old school), and that there is a proper way for him to question particular aspects of his training.

How to do this tactfully, as you mention, is the hard part. A smile and a dose of politeness usually helps. I'm afraid, though, that any attempt on your part to "lay down the rules" will trigger an angry/combative/temper-tantrum response.

Nevertheless, I would have to address his in-class actions. I would start by complementing his drive/hard work and how important it is to have such qualities in MA then I would follow with a "but, ..." and address his "issues." I would be sure to mention that me and/or my staff do not treat him disrespectfully and that he should, in keeping with school rules (if this is one of your school's rules) treat me/my staff with respect. I wouldn't, at this moment, mention what would happen if he continues to ignore school rules. I would just wait and see how he conducts himself. If he continues his old ways, I would tell him, calmly and in a matter-of-fact way, that he is not ready to be one of my students.

Hope this helps and sorry for the length of the post.

Ed

[Budderfly]

Thanks Karate Ed, Bushidoman and Throwdown.

Our school is focused on maintaining a positive and respectful attitude, in and out of the dojang. So that approach you suggested would work best for him.

We have been thinking about putting him and other potentially "poison" students on a probationary period (but tactfully calling it something more positive so he doesn't have to bring up the defenses right away). I like the "student agreement" idea and having him read through and understand a list of student rules and expectations.

To the BB of C: Thank you for posting but your suggestion is not what we want to represent as a school.

If anyone else has any other suggestions or has ran into this problem themselves, your comments and ideas are appreciated.

[Sasori_Te]

Hello all, I haven't been around in a few years.

Did you say in your last post that you have other potential "poison" students? Respectfully, I would give you this advice. Ask yourself why the students are able to become poison students. What atmosphere in your class allows them to behave this way?

I ask this because we had a student, I not sure if he was poison but he was pretty noxious, that ruined almost every class he was in. The other instructors and I sat down and had a talk about how things were being run. We discovered that discipline was running a little lax in class. There was too much of the instructor trying to be everyone's buddy and not enough control of the class going on.

I'm not sure if that's what you have going on, but it sounds like it could be playing a part. Again, no disrespect. I hope this may help.

BTW - we implemented a 3 strikes rule and suspended the student in question. After he was suspended he quit on his own. You may have to get used to fact that you might lose his son too.

[ironsifu]

fire him. you dont go into business to take any students just because he has a dollar. but maybe you can talk to him about his attitude, and if he does not improved, invite him to find another school.