Scarf hold

[Adonis]

Yeah I prefer the under hook on the arm also. I some times switch it up to go around the head if I am setting up a head and arm choke. Other then that though, I mostly prefer to stay away from going around the head. As metnioned earlier, You can get rolled from there, or your back taken, or other stuff can be applied on you.

[Gusss]

Kesa Gatame is really difficult to get out of and does not require a Gi to be effective. However it is a hold down but not a submission hold. This means you can hold your opponent down and they can just lie there for ever. This is useful for Judo rules where you only have to hold them down for a few seconds but not for MMA where you need a submission. There is one other issue - one of the opponents arms are free in this hold down so in MMA they can be hitting you with it.

[MMA_Jim]

The scarf hold can be applied from overhooks (kinda like a head and arm headlock) or with an underhook for maximum efficiency.

Heres the catch though- Its great for pinning an opponent or otherwise making it very difficult for him to escape. Against someone with a good scarf hold and with an underhook, escaping this position can be very difficult, but its not of much importance.

No attacks are really available from this position, other than a keylock with your legs, which wont get experienced opponents. Essentially, its a holding position. If you start to punch, you let go of one of your grips, making it drastically easier for your opponent to get to his side and escape. If you want to set up a series of attack, you need to switch your hips back to face your opponent to start an attack.

So, it could be used, but all you're going to do is hold your opponent there, doing no damage, and threatening no submission attempts. As such your opponent isnt really in any danger. If all you do is hold, you'll simply be stood up or otherwise penalized for holding the fight.

[ps1]

There is one other issue - one of the opponents arms are free in this hold down so in MMA they can be hitting you with it.

This is only true if you have the far side underhook.

Heres the catch though- Its great for pinning an opponent or otherwise making it very difficult for him to escape. Against someone with a good scarf hold and with an underhook, escaping this position can be very difficult, but its not of much importance.

No attacks are really available from this position, other than a keylock with your legs, which wont get experienced opponents. Essentially, its a holding position. If you start to punch, you let go of one of your grips, making it drastically easier for your opponent to get to his side and escape. If you want to set up a series of attack, you need to switch your hips back to face your opponent to start an attack.

So, it could be used, but all you're going to do is hold your opponent there, doing no damage, and threatening no submission attempts. As such your opponent isnt really in any danger. If all you do is hold, you'll simply be stood up or otherwise penalized for holding the fight.

Agreed. In my opinion, the variation without the underhook is useless becase a skilled opponent will frame your head and escape...possibly take your back...but you'll certainly lose the good position. Even more so if you try to punch.

The option with the underhook, however, is great!. You have a variety of submissions (some shifting will be required), the ability to strike, and the ability to trasfer to other positions quickly. Not only that...if you know how to apply your weight...it's a great way to get the opponent to make a reaction such as pushing or attempting to move.

[ShoriKid]

Mostly everyone has covered why you won't see it in MMA. The decresed number of subs and difficulty in landing strikes are things that you have to consider. However, it is a good transitional position to train from. With some Greco throws and tackdowns you can end up in a very similar position. From there transitioning to side control or the mount is pretty easy.

Some of our throws will land you in the scarf hold, though we are usually "lower" with the hips out more. That may well be from the wrestling influence that is present. Anyway, we either transition over to mount or side control. Using the pics in the link ps1 provided, here's where we end up some times. We land and get the arm back to the right side of our heads and apply preasure, trapping the arm there and being able to work a choke from the position. I know there is a name for the choke, PittbullJudoka keeps reminding us of what it is and I can't ever remember. Or when we transition, if the arm is to the inside, we try to keep it across the neck/upper chest and get to mount so that they have less mobility in the arm to defend with.

PS: ps1, the link was much appriciated. Back tracked to the main page and book marked it for later.

[pittbullJudoka]

Kesa gatame (scarf hold) is really a hold down or a pin controlling the head and arm. It is often mistaken for Kata gatame (shoulder hold/ckoke). Kata gatame is the actual head and arm choke that has been mislabled as the scarf hold. The kesa gatame you are actually have wrist controll and are setting on your hip, controlling your opponents arm across your hips. Kata gatame you'll have you opponents arm between your shoulder and their head. You will be low on a knee.