"Lying" for Protection?

[yingampyang]

lol , so you dont really follow your conscience.

not exactly gonna work like that in a life or death situation my friend... in a situation like that, your conscience is long gone...

Well that is your choice , i wouldn't forget my conscience and i would not lie.

[Throwdown0850]

lol , so you dont really follow your conscience.

not exactly gonna work like that in a life or death situation my friend... in a situation like that, your conscience is long gone...

Well that is your choice , i wouldn't forget my conscience and i would not lie.

with a heart rate that high in a life or death situation my friend, instinct is all thats left.. also, whenever somebody asks me that they heard that I did Martial Arts, I tell them that I dont know anything..

[yingampyang]

But we are too very different people, and by the sound of it you buckel under prseure , were i say very clam. So i will not be having any high heart rates, because i have had many life or death situations.

[Throwdown0850]

But we are too very different people, and by the sound of it you buckel under prseure , were i say very clam. So i will not be having any high heart rates, because i have had many life or death situations.

I can hold me on out there.. and I try to avoid life or death situations... I react on instinct, not what my conscience "tells" me to do..

[Chikara]

So, you'd rather be killed than say you know martial arts?

Me, I'm a girl so I'll give the flip side of the coin. I would lie about doing it. I would say that I don't know how to do anything and I wouldn't react in an aggressive manner. I would divert their attacks innocently and wait for the right time to knock them off their feet.

We'll all end up doing what we're trained to do whether we think about it or not. We all have that baser instinct to survive and nothing is going to override that no matter what. We will yank our hands back when burned, shiver when it's cold, and continue breathing when we're asleep. Of course, our instincts also warn us to not go down that dark alley, but that's one of the instincts we think about and sometimes ignore.

[joesteph]

So, you'd rather be killed than say you know martial arts?

Me, I'm a girl so I'll give the flip side of the coin. I would lie about doing it. I would say that I don't know how to do anything and I wouldn't react in an aggressive manner. I would divert their attacks innocently and wait for the right time to knock them off their feet.

Hi Chikara. Glad you're posting again.

The OP was about lying either by commission (outright) or omission (leaving something out to create a false impression). But the instructor who advocated this, and the person wrestling with this, sought to avoid conflict. There was mention of gangs being present in the OP.

It may be reasonable and prudent (that's actually used in law--What would a reasonable and prudent person do?) to "gild the lily" to prevent someone from starting or, if already started, continuing an altercation. We shouldn't be hung up on the word "lie," as though we seek to cause harm; we can say (or not say, as in I have a health problem and am not 100%, but I don't want a gang member to know it) without causing harm. I do not believe that falsehood is an absolute wrong; adhering to telling the truth no matter what the repurcussions can be concluded as illogically doing more harm than good. There are necessary evils (in this case, lying) in the world, whether we want them or not, just as there are outright evil individuals (gang members) in the world, no matter how they became that way.

I sympathize with a (wo)man of conscience, but I must also consider situation ethics--which may dictate a lie of commission or omission in a particular circumstance.

[Chikara]

Thanks Joesteph!

I agree. There's no such thing as a white or black lie, just different shades of gray. The person who says he or she never lies is the biggest liar of all.

Is it really omitting if I don't tell them every single aspect of my life? I don't think so. They don't need to know that I know martial arts, that would probably ensure a fight starts. They don't need to know that person across the street I just waved to is just a stranger. I think what Enron and Worldcorp did was omitting. This is different.

[Tiger1962]

What do other people think of this trick? I can see how it can rarely help, but not always, and probably not as often as just maintaining a pacifistic attitude.

To me, it would depend upon the situation. But I really tend to lean more towards not saying anything until I need to protect or defend myself and even then, its what I DO, not what I SAY, that is going to count and help me in the long run.

I believe that when you're a woman, there is more of a challenge (than if you were a man) seen by the eyes of the attacker(s), if he knows you are trained in the martial arts.

All the more reason to not say anything - and - as Chikara mentioned - until you really need to. You do what you have to - to protect yourself.

To me, staying alive is what counts: not my conscience, and not the conflict of lying vs. not lying.

[tallgeese]

I don't make a point of concealing anything I do or know involving the ma's from anyone. I don't make a point of drawing attention to it either.

[Fu Man]

For some odd reason, all of my non-martial art friends, even those who have known me for many years, and most of my family members either do not know I practice martial arts, or probably do not remember that I practice martial arts.

Since I was a teenager, I never discussed my martial arts training in conversations with non-martial artist. Not that I tried to hide it. It just does not come up in conversations.

In a self-defense situation, I would prefer that the opponent did not know I practiced martial arts so I can benefit from the element of surprise. Also, the person is less likely to take extra precautions, such as bringing a weapon or extra friends for back-up.

More or less, the tactic gives the opponent a false sense of security.