Defending against Guns

[Taylor]

I wonder if there are any military or law enforcement officers in here who could weigh in that received explicit training for this, or if they already did, I'd like to know who, because those are the people whose opinion I'm interested in on this point.

Honestly guys, working with firearms is an entirely different skill set than martial arts, and while related, I know there is an entire range of curriculum that many military and law enforcement officers receive on this point that is time tested and worth hearing. This is a dangerous topic to theorize on.

[tallgeese]

Well, I can't speak for others on this forum as to their profession, although I'd guess a couple of others were law enforcement of some type as well, but I'm an active LEO.

As to the training received on this topic, yes, law enforcement does receive training in weapon retention and disarming. Here's the thing, most of this has been done before in one form or another. I can't count the number of different DT programs I've seen and most use some variant of the same control priciples, a vast majorty are derivitives of some martail art. Some utilize these movements better than others.

The acadamy weapon disarming I learned was far inferior to things that I had been exposed to during the course of my MA training. The current program that my dept. uses had disarming that is pretty good (even I I don't care for the rest of the program).

Basically, it all comes down to controlling distance and weapon. After that, you need to consider escalating to a more efficient weapon. Don't get me wrong, this is just a big strategy brush I'm working with here, the more specific tactics that are used to accomplish these principles are certainly more numerous.

As I think bushido man pointed out in anothre thread, firearms training can almost be considered an art form in and of itself. He's right, it certanly could be considered such. I'm a cross-training advocate however, and think that integrating this type of training into a martial arts program can be very useful. The key is to training in efficient and realistic movements, as is the concept of treating such training as a "last restort" methodology. It needs to be stressed that this is a negitive situation and should not be attempted under normal circumstances.

Cross training that considers defense against, or even a step further, training with guns, does itself a great service in regards to preparing students for today's enviornment. Qualified instruction is key if you want to go this route and there are plenty of groups out there doing lots of good stuff with firearm defense, alot of the Krav schools come to mind as do some of the JKD places I've seen.

[bushido_man96]

I have done a little bit of LEO training with firearms, but not enough to be satisfied with my performance yet. It is something that I need a lot more work on.

I did attend a class a while ago on weapon retention, and that was a fun class. I went into it with my DT buddy, and we took a lot away from it. We did a lot with securing the gun, and then using the other hand to either attack the limb on the gun, all the while working towards keeping the gun, gaining distance, and then racking and firing the weapon.

[Taylor]

Thanks for that tallgese and Bushido. Very helpful...

I remember a bunch of guys a number of years ago in my martial arts studio working on inventing some of these kinds of techniques, and I asked them, "have you ever fired a gun?"

"No," they said.

"Have you received training from someone that has survived these techniques who can testify to you that they work?"

"No," they said.

"Then don't teach these techniques in this school anymore!"

People like to do some weird things in the martial arts world sometimes and try to sell it. It's scary.

I've heard that Krav Maga has actually been used on the battlefield with Israili Soldiers, so those are some techniques I think can be recommended with a clear conscience.

[bushido_man96]

One way that is fun to work on gun defenses is to use a rubber band gun. It adds some fun to the practice, but at the same time, provides valuable feedback. If you can't dodge a rubber band, then you sure aren't going to be dodging any bullets any time soon.

[NightOwl]

Along with LEOs, military personnel also work on disarms. Thing is, they aren't always the greatest but usually they don't NEED to be. If you somehow are not armed and have no backup, you've screwed up royally.

[tallgeese]

I don't think anyone would argue otherwise.

This is a real negitive situation and all you can do is pick from a list of less than ideal options if you have to act.

[anewsome]

Ok, so, how does this relate to self-defense exactly?

[tallgeese]

It's that kind of world these days and they need to be considered. Firearms are very prevalent and most guys that will assult you are also likely to disregard firearm laws.

It's by no means the only thing to consider, but it is another factor to complete your skill sets to deal with as many situations as possible.

[bushido_man96]

It's that kind of world these days and they need to be considered. Firearms are very prevalent and most guys that will assult you are also likely to disregard firearm laws.

It's by no means the only thing to consider, but it is another factor to complete your skill sets to deal with as many situations as possible.

Exactly. Self-defense isn't just about defending against the cold-cock shot that comes out of nowhere. It is about self-awarness, avoiding conflict in the first place, and perhaps equipping yourself in such ways that you can deal with attacks that are more than physical.