Defending against Guns

[Johnlogic121]

I have heard that gun disarms are only fifty percent effective when used by martial artists who are experts in the gun disarm techniques. After all, the gunman has to only move one finger while the martial artist has to move his whole body! Can anybody verify this? Furthermore, if the gunman is smart, he will brace the gun against his body so that his arms aren't extended and he will stand ten feet away from the martial artist (or potential martial artist) to discourage a disarm attempt. Some martial artists can leap eight feet, but not all of them can. What would you estimate your defensive chances to be against a gunman? Statistics suggest that you should remain calm and talk your way through a mugging encounter and give the mugger your wallet, as this generally results in nobody getting physically hurt even thouhg you lose your money. But if the gunman asks you to kneel with your back to him, he is probably going to shoot you in the back of the head. What are the forum's comments about defense in this common but desparate sort of situation? Thanks in advance for your commentary.

[NewEnglands_KyoSa]

well, this is a very stick situation john. one thing's for sure if all the components of...he's armed, he's far away, it's close to his body the only hope you have is to try to achieve peace, which is what we are taught first and foremost, if you can talk your way out, before anything else, then that is a successful fight. in that situation its either talk your way out, or get on your knees and pray. at that point, being a martial artist may mean squat. but in close proximity, with the gun aimed, the chances are increased by far. but advice is, don't get stuck in that situation! thats all i got for yah

[yingampyang]

Put it this way , if you use a gun in close range a martial artist has a good chance of defending ones self. But from a distance of say 10-15 meters then there is no hope , unless you can confuse your oppoent.

[Rainbow_Warrior]

It could be good , trying to disarm some friend with a water gun or an airsoft gun.. .And see if you get shot or not.

[yingampyang]

Yea that a good training idea , or even with a paintball gun.

[bushido_man96]

A friend of mine and I practice from time to time with rubber band guns. They give great feedback.

When it comes to gun disarms, you are talking about seconds and inches. You want to gain just as much of a second as you can, and move just as much of those inches as you can to get the gun off of the vitals. Inches and seconds are what you are buying. If the opponent has the gun pulled, and you are around 5 feet away or more, you will run the risk of being shot if you approach, and the gunman is serious about killing you. If they have yet to draw the gun, then you have a little more wiggle room. Seconds and inches, seconds and inches.

[Bushido-Ruach]

I agree with Bushido-man...seconds and inches!

I live in a very violent city, with gang-bangers constantly shooting each other and anyone else who gets in their way. Most of them aren't smart enough stand far enough away from you, and they love to show off in front of their buddies and stick guns in people's faces or wave them around trying to scare people. One thing working in law enforcement that I have learned is this...anyone who is cocky enough to pull a gun out of their pants and threaten someone else is unpredictable, there isn't any way to tell if they will shoot you or not...unless it is initiation time for some young and up and coming punk. In that case, someone will get shot, its just a matter of time and opportunity for them.

I said all that as background for this, we practice weapon disarming (knife, gun, bat, stick) techniques and if he is standing close enough to you for a technique to work, we train to take'em out without getting hurt (as much as possible). Here are some tips...

#1 the very first thing to do if you find yourself on the wrong end of a gun and you are close enough to execute a technique, is turn your body as fast as you can so that you present a small target rather than a large one (most people who shoot others don't take their guns to target ranges to practice shooting...which is why they miss all the time or shoot passers-by by accident).

#2 as you turn your body sideways, simultaneously move to position your body as far away from the line of fire as possible, while extending your hand out to take control of the gun. Turning your body works well to get the bulk of it out of the way (if you get shot, being skimmed is FAR better than getting hit point blank in the body), but if you practice turning and moving out of the line of fire, you can coordinate your body to give yourself a good chance of accomplishing the mission...

#3 if you control the hand, you control the weapon. A lot of Aikido techniques are good for this because the movements are circular, and slight modification of those techniques will retain effectiveness while keeping the gun from pointing at you. I would suggest purchasing a rubber gun to practice with at first because there are some techniquest where simple knowledge of body mechanics (trapping the finger within the finger well and breaking it) can CAREFULLY be practiced. We also train with the new pellet guns that have come out recently, because they are more realistic than paintball guns at seeing if one is fast enough to get out of the way before the trigger is pulled. It hurts a little (if you are wearing a thick gi), but when you can actually see that you aren't getting shot, it builds your confidence. (We only train with these guns for the first part of geting out of the line of fire, as after this some of the techniques end up in the gun flying through the air, and these pellet guns (that shoot plastic pellets) won't last too long after that treatment).

#4 PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE!!! Disarming practice, as with any practice, simply increases your chances of not getting hurt, or not getting hurt as much as you would if you didn't practice. When it comes to any weapon, if it can be avoided, avoid it. The sad truth, however, is that sometimes people can't avoid them...so prepare as if it might happen tomorrow, and pray that it will never happen to you at all.

Blessings!

[glockmeister]

Put it this way , if you use a gun in close range a martial artist has a good chance of defending ones self. But from a distance of say 10-15 meters then there is no hope , unless you can confuse your oppoent.

Sure there's hope, you run like heck in a zig zag pattern. Hitting a rapidly moving target is extremely difficult even when the gun is in the hands of a highly trained shooter. Even more difficult when the shooter is one of the wanna be gangster types who think you should shoot holding the pistol sideways.

[KarateEd]

Furthermore, if the gunman is smart, he will brace the gun against his body so that his arms aren't extended and he will stand ten feet away from the martial artist (or potential martial artist) to discourage a disarm attempt.

With guns, if you are hoping to disarm the attacker, you are going to have to be right up on him, or else be able to move in close. If you aren't close or are unable to close in, run like glockmeister said. As for bracing a gun, when it comes to a pistol, most people will use it extended at arms length from their bodies.

Ed

[bushido_man96]

Furthermore, if the gunman is smart, he will brace the gun against his body so that his arms aren't extended and he will stand ten feet away from the martial artist (or potential martial artist) to discourage a disarm attempt.

With guns, if you are hoping to disarm the attacker, you are going to have to be right up on him, or else be able to move in close. If you aren't close or are unable to close in, run like glockmeister said. As for bracing a gun, when it comes to a pistol, most people will use it extended at arms length from their bodies.

Ed

Another idea to get close is to start talking to them, trying to use a calming manner, with the hands up in front of you (fence), and try to slowly approach them as you talk. If you only have between 5 and 10 feet to cover, you may be able to pull this off. It is a thought, anyway.