Is BJJ defensive; does Wrestling seem offensive?

[ShoriKid]

Treebranch

Just because Randy Couture was a wrestler and he is great, doesn't mean wrestlling is the best form of fighting

Not heroworship for Randy, just pointing out the man is no slouch and with more than 3 decades dedicated to martial training, he understands the elements of a fight. Do I think that Randy, without really thinking about it, seems to have implimented many traditional aspects of martial arts philosophy into his life? Yes. Humble, hard working, polite, constantly seeking improvement. If a young person were looking for a pro athlete to have as a role model, you could do far worse. I, nor anyone else, has said or implied that wrestling is the best form of fighting. But, I have said it is a form of fighting. An ancient one at that, with a long history of use in combat.

I personally love UFC and good cage fighting in general, but I know the difference between Sport and Reality

As do most folks who train for fighting, and actually fight. A lot of gym hangers on may not, but that is their fault more than the people who they are training with.

If you find yourself defending yourself on the street and you really hurt someone. The cops are going to question you. Just say "I was in fear for my life", which may or may not be true.

"I was in fear for my life" Tree, I think you stole my quote from the thread where the OP was researching self defense laws. Never say what you were trying to do other than survive/get out alive. Anything past that and your doing the prossecution's job for them.

Keep training, keep an open mind and you will learn. All MA's have something to offer. Don't close your mind to TMA's. If you are a true Martial Artist you can use techniques from many styles to help give you an edge in the ring. THINK OUTSIDE OF THE CAGE

If my mind were any more open, I swear it would fall right out. I'm a traditionalist in the same manner, I feel, that a lot of the pre-1920 karate men were. You learn from whoever you can learn from, including traveling to China etc. in their day. I don't place fences around styles or techniques. I'll steal shamelessly(with credit given when asked) from any style I come into contact with. Heck, I'm looking through Medieval European fighting manuels from the 1300s for knife defense work when I find the time. So, if I came off as antogonistic, I'm sorry folks. When I see the assertion that wrestling is useless in a fight, or karate, or kung-fu or about any art, I tend to defend whatever that art is. Part of being open to them is to be willing to defend them as well. Just the same with someone making the very strong statement that they could best on one of the top 10 heavy weight fighters in the world 80%. It would be no different than a mma trained person saying they could beat ANY(not the 'random' any, the all inclusive ANY) TMA guy 80% of the time. I'll speak up and put forth why I believe they should reconsider the statement.

I just think pure wrestling isn't enough. BJJ has it all for the ground that is. BJJer's just need to practice more takedowns. A hybrid of the two would be ideal.

Amen sir. Best of both worlds and something I've long advocated.

I'll roll with anyone. I have no pride when it comes to learning.

Refering to my post on what would you train in given the time, I'm a junkie. I'll roll with anyone. Or work whatever they'll work. And I'll throw out what I've got too if they are interested. The more open and informed everyone is, the more respectful we can be of each other's arts. That means more doors are open for more training. That just sounds like the best deal to me.

[NightOwl]

Randy IS my hero....

Really it isn't about style, it's about the person. And said person so happens to train a great deal in an art (wrestling) that while it has limitations AS WITH ANY ART, it has proven itself to be effective. Yes, there are plenty of TMAers that can take on wrestlers, and MOST certainly vice versa. However Randy isn't just a top wrestler, he is a top all around martial artist. To say that he would have just a 1 in 5 chance of winning against you and that there are thousands at his skill level or above calls for examples beyond people training in secret family styles that live in a remote corner of the world that nobody could deny or confirm. Here is an example of him in action:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=3RYueZQ6OwY

As you can see he is an expert on the clinch- once he has you there you really can't strike anything (including the groin) with much force at all.

[Treebranch]

Agreed. He's a great fighter. No disagreeing with that.

[yingampyang]

Yes he is a great fighter , but he is not the best. There is always someone better.

[Treebranch]

Thank you. I'm going to be hated for saying this, but I've watched his fights and If you took his incredible strength and athleticism away from him there's not much left. If I wanted someone to train me it wouldn't be him. It would be someone like St. Pierre or BJ Penn.

[bushido_man96]

So, you think that Couture won all of his fights without any skill? I think that he is highly skilled, and if that wasn't the case, there are plenty of other fighters out there that could be doing what he does, but they are not. Why? It is isn't because they aren't strong and athletic. Most of those guys have to be; it is just about a prerequisite to compete at that high of a level. It is because they are not as skilled.

[Treebranch]

I'm not saying he doesn't have skill, but you have to admit it's really not a large repertoire of skills. He's an amazing fighter, but I'm not impressed with the way he fights. I have a right to my opinion. He's not my favorite fighter.

[pittbullJudoka]

Randy many not have what some consider a large skill set. But he has refined what he has to were it works. He has to be some sort of good bet had beat some pretty good fighters. I mean he spanked Tito, Belfort (twice), Rizzo (Twice), Horn, Sylvia and Gonzoga. He fights those that are considered the best at the time he fights them. A look at the fact most of the guys are younger and in what you wold consider their prime. Some of the thing he does aren't the most techniqual but the work.

[Rainbow_Warrior]

Today I grappled against an olympic caliber freestyle wrestling.

Im 195.... he is about 155lbs. He threw me with a shoulder throw. THen....he controled all the fight.

He has been training for 6 months in submission wrestling , he couldnt make me tap. But He kicked my butt in the points stuff.

I barely could move...and I am waaay stronger and heavier....

[bushido_man96]

I'm not saying he doesn't have skill, but you have to admit it's really not a large repertoire of skills. He's an amazing fighter, but I'm not impressed with the way he fights. I have a right to my opinion. He's not my favorite fighter.

You don't need to have a large set of skills to be good; you just have to hone the skills that you have. Someone once said something to the effect of "I don't fear the man with 10,000 techniques, but the man who has practiced 1 technique 10,000 times" or something of that nature.

I agree that you have a right to not like him as your favorite fighter. Everyone has that right. I am not trying to press him into being your favorite fighter, either. However, you can't discount his accomplishments. The reason he retired is because the only person left for him to fight is Fedor Emelienenko, and that fight won't happen. Do I think he could win that fight? Sure, I think he could lose it as well; Fedor is a phenomenal fighter and athlete. I would not underestimate Courture, either.