Why I like JKD

[NightOwl]

Also, some of the least humble people who talk down to others can be found in TMA. I don't care much for the super 'hard core' attitude either- but I don't know if a fake atmosphere of humility and respect is much better. I learned how to be a good person growing up without a dojo, and the self improvement angle is off putting to me because it rubs off to me as a marketing ploy. It all depends on the person, whether they are a karate grandmaster or an mma pro. What they study doesn't really matter.

The hard rock and flashing lights at mma events are there for a reason- it draws in the coveted young male audience (plus you have to keep in mind that early mma competitions were somewhat underground and there remains a bit of that). I agree with you that it is a bit much at times (and goodness knows, I could go without the screamo music ) .

[bushido_man96]

I learned how to be a good person growing up without a dojo, and the self improvement angle is off putting to me because it rubs off to me as a marketing ploy. It all depends on the person, whether they are a karate grandmaster or an mma pro. What they study doesn't really matter.

I agree with this. I don't think that it should be a requirement for an MA school to shape the morals of people. That should already be done. I don't think it is bad to do it, and I don't think they should teach people wrong, and to be pains to society. However, I do think it is over-presented at times.

[bushido_man96]

Like I said I'm not bashing MMA's fighting prowess I just don't want my martial arts to look like a boxing match because it doesn't feel right to ME.

What is important is what fighting actually looks like, when it comes down to it...and I don't mean in competition. It won't always be beautiful and aesthetically pleasing. It will most likely be ugly and brutal.

[Malldetective]

Let me just clarify the stance here before my words get menced too. This is not a battle for supremecy between modern martial arts and traditional.

I started off in a traditional martial art but I favor styles like Jeet Kune Do, Krav Maga, and Judo. All of which are modernizations modified for todays world. I'm arguing for a curriculum that creates a a better world through martial artist. One that builds martial artist that leave the planet in better condition than they found it. I hate the term self-deffense. I don't like it because it's absorbed. I prefer warriorship. The responsibility to defend those that can not defend themselves, not just the ability to walk away from bar brawl after you tried to hit on someone elses girlfriend.

My argument is for making the modern combat system something to be looked up to and admired on a basis higher than I can beat you up. Big flipin deal. I'm not impressed. The courage to fight for somethign you know is right when nobody else will is impressive. Modern MA styles have a bright future ahead of them, and let us remember someday these too will be looked at from an aincient historical basis. Are we going to be seen like heros? Or is the period of popularity for UMC going to be looked at in the future as a time when people were obbsessed with only violence and aggresion, and had forgotten who they were in favor of bright lights, hard hits, beer and women. A time when our most primal insticts ruled over our own cognition, and all intellegence and honor was stripped from the art of fighting.

That is not what I want. I'll blaze my own path. Thats all I'm trying to say.

[bushido_man96]

I can see what you are saying, and I don't think that it is wrong. I just try not to get too romanticized about the Martial Arts in general. We are all human, and we all have vices. We do need to find a way to attack these things and deal with them, and try to become better people. However, I don't look to one thing or another to "become a better person." I can do that on my own; then, whatever I choose to do, I look good doing it, because I try to be a good person.

Does that make sense?

[Malldetective]

It does. The problem comes in when you take people who are not already good people and teach them how to snap necks and break bones. Accountability is the most important aspect to being an instructor.

Beyond that, one thing or the other is not necissarily what does it. There are many things that keep people away from the negative and into the positive. I don't think anyone is arguing that. If playing guitar or going to church every sunday keeps you off drugs so be it. But for some Martial Arts is the trigger. If modern MA is the most effective in terms of combat prowess, IF it is, than we need to creater an enviroment in which people, espcially young people, can become proficent and still become honorable.

But the most important factor is not using martial arts to build up someones character; its insuring that martial arts don't destroy what character they already have.

I have no problem romanticising the martial arts. Maybe I'm just a natural romantic. Maybe it's because I'm an Obama supporter and I like chanting 'Yes we can!" Who knows? But I know this, there was a move on someones part to make martial artist a beacon for truth and hope. There had to be. Even if it didn't start that way. Because if there wasn't, the romantic notion never would have come about. History is important but it doesn't always control and direct my now. And my 'now' says a martial artist should be a hero, not a villian, a role-model, not another bad influence. Children today have enough of those.

[bushido_man96]

The problem comes in when you take people who are not already good people and teach them how to snap necks and break bones. Accountability is the most important aspect to being an instructor.

I agree with you here. We are accountable.

Don't get too caught up in what you see involving the new MMAs, especially what you see in the rings at the events. A lot of the trash talking that you are seeing is a show. It doesn't mean that these guys are like this all of the time. But when it comes to stepping into the ring, they don't want to appear nicey-nice to the opponent. They are coming after them, and want to beat them. You have to go to the gyms, and experience each of them for yourself. Sure, you will find some jerks, but this is true in any other style of MA, or any other walk of life, for that matter.

[avxsk8erpunk]

So I guess I'm suprised to hear people say JKD started MMA. I just don't see it.

think of it like this

Bruce once wrote something like how martial arts is shattered due to the partiality of all Martial arts like judo only does throws, karate lacks ground work, etc,, so he believed that JKD was the totality of it all so MMA combines throws, kicks, groundwork, kicks, etc.. the only problem it it lacks the spiritual and philosophical aspects of traditional martial arts

yet MMA doesnt really combine MA only fighters combine what they like, like Muay thai and BJJ, karate and Judo, But MMA is a sport not a true total martial art, although im pretty sure an MMA artist will be able to defend himself

[TraditionalDan]

I think any martial artist becomes more and more open as they begin to gain proficiency and experience. I am a karate practitioner, and not only do I train and take in information from all styles of karate. But all martial arts/disciplines. Especially when many styles have techniques you may not have even known of.

Similar to JKD, I see myself as a martial artist as well as a karateka if you get my meaning. What I am saying is, that most arts are only as restricted in what they can do, by the practitioner, not necessarily the style.

Luckily karate has quite a broad range of techniques to choose from, so you can pick out what is useful and work on that in particular. This doesn't mean that you can't branch out of your chosen discipline completely, and incorporate other techniques from other styles.

I must also add that MMA on its own is geared towards fighting in the ring, not 'on the street' as it were. So I believe it's outlook is different from JKD and more traditional arts.

I can see why JKD has a good outlook from the offset, because it teaches you the right mindset immediately, rather than working it out for yourself after years of training.

I do have one question, does JKD use quite alot of wing chun or other style more so in particular?

Thanks.

[NightOwl]

Malldetective- I don't that MMA fighting is dishonorable, or that MMA fighters are not martial artists. Knowing people who practice MMA, and having had the privilege of being able to train in MMA (even though for just a short bit), I have a great respect for the system.

My problem isn't with the fights, it's with the promotions AND the audience. MMA audiences attract 15-120% fight enthusiasts, and the rest tend to be 16-35 years olds who want to see blood and drink lots of booze (my friend had an event after an mma fight and he said he had never seen so many beer cans in all of his life). Now, people who are normally 'uncouth' don't need much encouragement to shout out obscenities, make cat calls, and start arguments. Get a little alcohol into them, and you get what I call the Hinderhough formula:

MMA audience member + X quarters of a glass of beer = to the Xth degree.

It's a very negative environment that not only would I never take a child (or really myself to), but also paints a very easy to bring up stereotype against us who enjoy MMA as bloodthirsty sociopaths. Despite its own faults, that's a reason why I like K-1 and the now defunct PRIDE over a lot of western promotions. Not because its from Asia which makes it 'better' than what is in the West, but because it is set up in a lot more professional manner that I would expect for something that wants to be a mainstream sport.

Touching on the promotions for MMA fights, I just read an interview that was given with the heads of one of the top MMA apparel brands. Their response to the question of what they thought of criticism that they were 'bad for the sport' featured so many deleted explicatives that I think they must have exhausted every one in the English language. I think that pretty much sums of the promotion culture that you find at these things: Women, promised blood, 'attitude', and beer. It certainly makes money.

Also besides an audience that would fit in better with a kegger (or a little league game), you also have the 'hard core' music, the 'ring girls' who in some events go in topless (or just ring girls and drunk guys shouting out pickup lines - its hardly a good reflection on how women are supposedly supposed to be viewed by men), and varying projectiles that make it hard to concentrate on the actual event. I JUST WANT TO WATCH AN MMA MATCH! I don't need to be drunk, objectifying women, or shouting out bad advice to the fighters to do that. Oh, and Dana White. Could do without him too.

...um, I still recommend MMA training as some of the best out there by the way