How does a kyung ful martial artist judge a korean pattern?

[koreantiger81]

I was at an open style tournament the other day. Hapkido, taekwondo, karate, and kyungfu all competed in the same forms division. This didn't make sense to me. HOw can they all compete in the same division doing different forms? Also, the judges were not all kyungfu, hapkido, taekwondo, and karate stylists. How can a Taekwon do judge, be the judge of a kyungfu form??? I know judges look at power, speed, rhythm, stances, and sharpness....Being a taekwondoist, I have no idea if a kyungfu form is sharp or not. sigh..I'm confused.!~

 

[ This Message was edited by: koreantiger81 on 2002-06-10 06:28 ]

[Bretty101]

I think I could mark people from different styles. (I'm a qualified TKD ref :rolleyes: )

 

You look for people doing unnatural moves and making them look natural and coordinated. (Even students from the same style differ as their instructors teach slightly different variations)

 

You mark on

 

Sharpness.

 

Strenght.

 

Balance and

 

coordination.

 

Take a simple L-stance or Back stance. It's such an unnatural stance with weight distribution the angles of your feet and balance. It takes a beginner years to master. However if someone makes this move look natural and coordinates it with hip motion and arm motion this is what you mark them for!!!

 

This is why you can tell straight away when someone walks into your club if they have done a MA before by their coordination.

 

I suppose if it's an open tournament you've got to be open minded. But then you don't get all that many open minded martial artists.

 

Bretty

 

[ This Message was edited by: Bretty101 on 2002-07-02 05:06 ]

[taebot]

As you see more you'll get an idea...

 

I competed in the Open Forms and Weapons at a Chinese Tournament. I performed Gaebek and was on. You could here my technique all over the gym. Most people stopped to watch and I got a standing "O." I also got fourth place. The judges, one pretty famous, informed me that my form was fantastic, but it lacked flow...

 

So, for forms, I performed Kama One with flow vs snap. I won.

 

Every judge sees something different and looks for something different.

 

It's a crap shoot.

 

 

 

But, as a judge, after a few years, you know, you see it, you feel the chi, the power, the rythm and timing of the performer and you know. Until then, it's just best guess, so make a good one !

[taebot]

"I suppose if it's an open tournament you've got to be open minded. But then you don't get all that many open minded martial artists."

 

Bretty

 

No. You get a lot of narrow-minded people in tournaments. But when you've been around long enough to be "A Martial Artist" your mind should be pretty open.

 

Most tournament competitors are performers (and players) who may one day become martial artists...

 

Right now, they're going through a phase of self-proof.

 

(Except a handful of rare individuals who figure, what the heck, I'm here anyway, I might as well get some practice in while I'm here... Like Mr. SJ of Topeka, KS.)

[Tobias_Reece]

How can a Taekwon do judge, be the judge of a kyungfu form???

 

They can't, IMHO

 

I used to only go to karate competitions, and think it was rediculous that a Wado-Ryu official could judge a Shotokan competitor. I didn't just assume that however - I, and several other ppl, were on the receiving end of it several times. It got us annoyed.

 

One event springs to mind - two ppl were doing Unsu. They both were japanese stylists, and did the kata exactly the same - up to a point. When it came to the jump, they both landed differently. One lad was wrong, and he knew he was wrong, but the judges didn't!!! Why? Because they didn't know the kata. And remember - that was karate - just karate.

 

I no longer attend mixed martial arts competitions, purely because each catagory is dominated by a specific art. The problem arises when the arts are all fancy. I've seen enough of a karate guy perform a strong kata with perfect finesse, only to see a (no offence to anyone here) TKD guy run half way across the mat, cartwheel, flip, downrock then land in the splits. Its crap basically......pure crap

 

I once entered a mixed MA comp with a japanese weapons catagory. Sounds fair enough to me, I thought. Then it came to fact that the judges were either TKD, or chinese weapon practitioners. The looks on their faces were unforgettable when they tried to judge a iaido kata. I did Nunchaku kata to a reasonable standard (it was OK), and I came last. At I overheard one of the judges say my stances weren't deep enough for a japanese stylist. Of course, I was doing Okinawan Kobudo, which basis itself on quick light stances, not deep. Surely thats a bit ignorant on behalf on the judge?

 

But, as long as they exist there will be complaints. Isn't that true about everything?

[taebot]

But mixed tournaments are not a forum for the technical dissertations of a single system.

 

They are a performance, a display, a popularity contest, a subjective judgement.

 

That's why a sport like ice skating has a technical and then a freestyle aspect to the competition.

 

So for the former, you are absoutely correct. For the latter, it's more like Star Search...

[taebot]

On another note. I spent some time training with Sifu JH, a student of Ark Won Yuey and I know for a fact each student of his designs their form based on the animal they are studying and the base form he teaches them. How you judge that for right or wrong?

 

I once had a little kid, an orange belt come up to me in a tournament in Oklahoma (I had been watching him for some time and he was somewhat short of something...) and proudly said, "My name is X, my school is Y, and I'm going to make some stuff up."

 

Man, he was honest and upfront, so I just judged it (one see SO many things in open tournaments anyway!). He made up some really good stuff. He placed. Go figure.

 

[NidanWarrior]

There are some pretty good answers here. As far as your question on how to judge a "kyungfu" form against that of basically any other style, I've always had the same problem. But I think it comes down to how well you can perfomr your basics. Is one fluid in thier motion/transitions? How are thier stances? And does it look like they are actually doing something (does it look like the techniques could work?) or are they just waiving thier arms around, making lound noises and doing crazy jumps? It most cases you can seperate the better practicioners from the "not-so-good" ones.

 

I find it difficult when you get good forms from different styles (say it's down to 2-3 for the finals and one is Kung Fu, one Japanese and one TKD style for the finals).If any of you have suggestions on judging that I'm open to your thoughts. Maybe a topic for another subject.

[NidanWarrior]

There are some pretty good answers here. As far as your question on how to judge a "kyungfu" form against that of basically any other style, I've always had the same problem. But I think it comes down to how well you can perfomr your basics. Is one fluid in thier motion/transitions? How are thier stances? And does it look like they are actually doing something (does it look like the techniques could work?) or are they just waiving thier arms around, making lound noises and doing crazy jumps? It most cases you can seperate the better practicioners from the "not-so-good" ones.

 

I find it difficult when you get good forms from different styles (say it's down to 2-3 for the finals and one is Kung Fu, one Japanese and one TKD style for the finals).If any of you have suggestions on judging that I'm open to your thoughts. Maybe a topic for another subject.

[mikelw]

i was about to say somethng stupid so i just deleted it.