Veteran black belt joins new MA style - status?

[tori]

I respect everyone equally regardless of their rank. If I started taking classes in another dojo of a complete different style, I would expect to start as a white belt and not factor in that I am a black belt in something else. I am there to learn and will treat others as they treat me, with respect. I do not feel that just because I hold rank in one style, that I am going to be automatically fantastic in another. I think the individual that this post was originally talking about, felt the same. He just wanted to learn something new and not have it taken into account that he was already ranked in another style.

[ShoriKid]

Takeda Shingen,

Sounds a lot like this sempai has his priorities backwards. His chief duties are to set an example, guide the kohai. Seems he thinks his job is to enforce discipline and be the 'hard man' of the dojo. A senior instructor came to my old dojo to give a Saturday seminar. During one of the breaks he is talking and I'm all ears. He nods from me, the ranking student there that day, and a blue belt next to me and says, "You know your job, right? You need to take these younger guys under your wing a bit. Help them down the path so they have it a little easier than you did."

If you go into a school already having a black belt, you should always remind yourself your there to learn. Not just train a bit or stroke your ego. If that school's equitte says put on a white belt, that's what you do. I've trained where you wear the rank you've earned and your ability and behavior garner the respect you get. The number, or lack of, stripes doesn't matter. I've been in others where you put on the white belt and learn. You start at the most simple of basics and nothing about your training is taken for granted. It's assumed you don't know how to do anything until you demonstrate otherwise. Then, you get respect based off of your ability and behavior. Usually, if there is enough stylistic carry over, you'll advance more quickly. A lot of that stems from the fact you already know how to learn. If that makes any sense.

[bushido_man96]

The other side of the coin is that this make me wonder why it would be the norm to "respect" higher graded belts more than lower. The only difference I see between junior and senior ranks at my club is the material we work on hen we break up by rank, and how much teaching we do to the lower ranks.

I agree here. Rank is an indicator of knowledge and tenure. However, I do agree that lower ranks should be respected like high ranks are.

[bushido_man96]

I agree that everyone should treat others with respect..all the time regardless of rank. In this case, at the end of training there was discussion on a particular waza when one of the sempai commented that the kohai should not speak up with such opinion as a white belt...clearly me and others could see that he was no white belt--- and we felt that the sempai was picking on him...the "kohai" quietly walked off and some others admonished the sempai to be more respectful...he said...he did not have black belt and had no right to speak other than osu...and this sempai also is strict on kohai to sweep the floor, show him respect, and listen to his commands etc...

If it were me that was treated this way, I would just bide my time, and make sure I get the chance to pay him back. What all members of the Martial Arts should keep in mind is that the respect/rank ideal only goes as far as the doors of the dojo. When you go out into the world, there isn't anyone out there that owes you any respect for anything. In such a case as you explained, the sempai would get no respect from me outside of the school, and the respect that he got from me in the school would be nothing more than superficial.

[Dobbersky]

Sensei, Sempai, Kohai

I am at a dilemma, My Tang Soo Do Instructor is now my Student in Ashihara Karate. I'd not seen him for many years apart from now and again through passing in the street.

He has joined my Dojo, and was willing to start from the beginning. I insisted that he wear his black belt. I am grading him directly as a 1st Dan. I just feel strange talking to him as a student. I know Ashihara is different to Tang Soo Do but I just don't know.

As I am a Kyu Grade in Wado Ryu and I am there to enjoy the training.

But its the fact that He was my instructor. I thought that for him to wear any belt other than black would be dishonourable.

Within the Ashihara UK syllabus, there are only 4 kata to practiced for 1st Dan (I am only grading him to 1st Dan and he will have to grade through the Dan Grades within his own timescale), I am teaching him these. Then we can work through the full syllabus in his own time through all the kata etc.

I have also discussed this with my Sensei in Ashihara. He is of the understanding that a BB is a BB, He's told me he is happy for my Friend to adorn his BB although he will not be able to grade at the same grade as he was in Tang Soo Do, this in itself is a big step down. However He is able to grade to First Dan Directly.

The one thing is Black and White belts tend to be worn by GKR representatives who are still lower grade Kyu grades so unsure what this would summise.

Your thoughts please

Osu

[yingampyang]

Well it doesn't really matter wat rank he is in other styles , because every style is different in it own way , so i would just treat him like a white belt.

[bushido_man96]

Just treat him like another friend of yours, who is seeking your knowledge. Be a friend, and if you have to line something out, do so.

[Techbrute]

I don't know the details of this particular instance, but in at least some cases, a rank in one art is not recognized in another. The practice varies from art to art and often dojo to dojo, depending on what club or organization the dojo might belong to. To lend a personal example, my rank in TaeKwonDo is not recognized at all in Shōbayashi Shōrin-ryū.

[bushido_man96]

I don't know the details of this particular instance, but in at least some cases, a rank in one art is not recognized in another. The practice varies from art to art and often dojo to dojo, depending on what club or organization the dojo might belong to. To lend a personal example, my rank in TaeKwonDo is not recognized at all in Shōbayashi Shōrin-ryū.

This may be the case, but his knowledge should be recognized.

[Techbrute]

@bushido, I agree, but do we not recognize knowledge by rank? Will this knowledgable student not grow through the ranks at an accelerated rate?

A white belt is a student that has not met the requirements for a higher belt. These requirements are nothing more than measurements of a student's mastery of their knowledge. A student previously schooled and ranked in another style will likely progress more quickly through ranks in a new style as he or she learn the subtleties of the differences in style and learn the new material, such as katas. This accelerated advancement is the recognition of their previous knowledge that you refer to, while at the same time allowing them to learn the new style properly without getting ahead of themselves.