Veteran black belt joins new MA style - status?

[Takeda Shingen]

A new member joined the dojo - we later find out that he has black belts in other disciplines, but humbly joins as white belt.

Some sempai treat him as a new white belt...I think he should be afforded additional measure of respect due to age/experiences..

Thank you for opinions.

Osu.

TS

[bushido_man96]

Here is how I see it...

If he joins humbly as a white belt, and does not bring up the fact that he has studied other styles and holds high ranks, then he probably doesn't care how the other students view him. He is probably more concerned with learning and training than he is about how he is viewed by others.

I imagine that in one way or another, he will gain/earn the respect of the sempais. Remember, it is difficult to force someone to respect another. Respect is best when it is earned, not demanded.

[Killer Miller]

I remember joining Aikido as a white belt, which I was in this MA..., I did not tell anyone, except that the instructor new me well, that I was JKA Black Belt. It was actually fun (although I really enjoyed learning a new art) training with all the brown and blak belts that felt they were going to teach me lesson or two. With the exception of the instructor, whom was really good, none of them could move me, beat me to the draw, or take me down. After a while, they were starting to wonder??? A couple said to me comments like "are you a ringer?" I chuckled. Later, the instructor told them of my background and would use me for a lot of examples. Although he was the only one that could take me down, he would have to work on it a little and he enjoyed trying different things on me. I really enjoyed it too...

- Killer -

[ps1]

A new member joined the dojo - we later find out that he has black belts in other disciplines, but humbly joins as white belt.

Some sempai treat him as a new white belt...I think he should be afforded additional measure of respect due to age/experiences..

Thank you for opinions.

Osu.

TS

He should be afforded the respect you would give any martial artist. Rank is of no consequence.

[Zanshin]

A new member joined the dojo - we later find out that he has black belts in other disciplines, but humbly joins as white belt.

Some sempai treat him as a new white belt...I think he should be afforded additional measure of respect due to age/experiences..

Thank you for opinions.

Osu.

TS

He should be afforded the respect you would give any martial artist. Rank is of no consequence.

Bob on Ps1, I couldn't agree more.

I remember joining Aikido as a white belt, which I was in this MA..., I did not tell anyone, except that the instructor new me well, that I was JKA Black Belt. It was actually fun (although I really enjoyed learning a new art) training with all the brown and blak belts that felt they were going to teach me lesson or two. With the exception of the instructor, whom was really good, none of them could move me, beat me to the draw, or take me down. After a while, they were starting to wonder??? A couple said to me comments like "are you a ringer?" I chuckled. Later, the instructor told them of my background and would use me for a lot of examples. Although he was the only one that could take me down, he would have to work on it a little and he enjoyed trying different things on me. I really enjoyed it too...

Hmm! with all due respect killer, that's not showing a lot of respect IMO.

If I have understood correctly, you are saying that you went in as a (percieved) beginner in MA (because that’s what etiquette says you should do), but in fact because you have trained in karate and have a Dan grade in it, this gave you an edge, and that you were in fact too much for the senior grades to handle.

That’s a shame Killer, as maybe if you had gone in with an open mind, perhaps those brown and black belts could have taught you something.

[Killer Miller]

LOL, I'm always respectful. I've been in JKA a lot of years, and when someone gets a little Froggy, you have to give a little taste of their own medicine back to them or they won't respect you either... There's surely no respect on their part assuming that because they are a Black or Brown belt, they are to look down upon you for what your knowledge or possible knowledge might be...

Trust me, I was there to learn from the Instructor whom was a good friend and I have nothing but tons of respect for. Also, he asked me to be a little resistant on the higher belts without them knowing I was already an MA black belt.

Additionally, in JKA environment and other similar disciplines, this is a common thing to do as well. I know many other disciplines are on the kick and understanding that you are always respectful. The JKA is, but when someone gets a little froggy, which is Very Much Disrespectful on their part, it's kind of a hidden tradition to give it back to them two-fold to nip it in the bud.

- Killer -

[Zanshin]

LOL, I'm always respectful. I've been in JKA a lot of years, and when someone gets a little Froggy, you have to give a little taste of their own medicine back to them or they won't respect you either... There's surely no respect on their part assuming that because they are a Black or Brown belt, they are to look down upon you for what your knowledge or possible knowledge might be...

Trust me, I was there to learn from the Instructor whom was a good friend and I have nothing but tons of respect for. Also, he asked me to be a little resistant on the higher belts without them knowing I was already an MA black belt.

Additionally, in JKA environment and other similar disciplines, this is a common thing to do as well. I know many other disciplines are on the kick and understanding that you are always respectful. The JKA is, but when someone gets a little froggy, which is Very Much Disrespectful on their part, it's kind of a hidden tradition to give it back to them two-fold to nip it in the bud.- Killer -

I also train in Aiki-Jujustu and when I started, was asked to take my foot off the gas, when doing many of the attacks, but the difference was that the guys there were, and are, very respectful (which is of course reciprocated) and they teach me a lot.

Personally I think you learn as much from your fellow students as you do from the instructor or at least you should do if all egos are removed.

Mind you this is as part of a Koryu group where the lowest grade of anyone there is nidan.

I’m afraid it doesn't put your friend in a good light as an instructor if he lets his seniors behave like this. Clearly he has a problem at his club.

[The BB of C]

A new member joined the dojo - we later find out that he has black belts in other disciplines, but humbly joins as white belt.

Some sempai treat him as a new white belt...I think he should be afforded additional measure of respect due to age/experiences..

Thank you for opinions.

Osu.

TS

I believe he should be taught the style as normal but still treated and respected as an experienced martial artist.

[dmacdonal9]

The other side of the coin is that this make me wonder why it would be the norm to "respect" higher graded belts more than lower. The only difference I see between junior and senior ranks at my club is the material we work on hen we break up by rank, and how much teaching we do to the lower ranks.

If lighter belts perceive any kind of class system in the dojo, then I would think it'd encourage them to leave, and that's not good for any club.

If by "treat him as a white belt" you mean help him more than he really needs and explain things more thoroughly than he needs, then I think that's exactly how it should be, because they have no idea where the gaps in his knowledge are.

If you mean yell at him and make him do pushups when he does something wrong, then not so much. If that's the norm at a dojo (and I'm not saying that's wrong, there's lots to be said for strictness and formality), then I think everyone should get it, regardless of age/rank.

[Takeda Shingen]

thank you so much for the good opinions and advices...yes, I agree that everyone should treat others with respect..all the time regardless of rank. In this case, at the end of training there was discussion on a particular waza when one of the sempai commented that the kohai should not speak up with such opinion as a white belt...clearly me and others could see that he was no white belt--- and we felt that the sempai was picking on him...the "kohai" quietly walked off and some others admonished the sempai to be more respectful...he said...he did not have black belt and had no right to speak other than osu...and this sempai also is strict on kohai to sweep the floor, show him respect, and listen to his commands etc...

yes, respect is earned in action, kindness, and helping -- more than words and rank..

Very unfortunate and pigheaded in my view.

Thank you for sharing your wisdom and experiences.

osu!

TS