Outside style practitioners working out in your school?

[bushido_man96]

This quote got the old motor turning:

I will often allow kyu and Dan grade students from other Karate styles to train with their existing belts for a period of time, but eventually they should really be graded to to their correct wado standard. Usually this involves a significant downward shift in grade. We often have students start with us from other Wado groups and the same rule applies to them.

I know that many of us have talked about student joining our schools from other styles, and getting rank in the style we teach. Usually, they start at white belt, and the begin working their way up, like they did before in their own style.

Most of us have no problem allowing this.

Here is my question:

What if a practitioner from another style came to your school, and just wanted to work out with your class, on a regular basis (lets say as often as you meet in a week), but had no interest in advancing in your style? He just wants to work out, learn the techniques, applications, etc. Would you allow this? How would you approach it? What belt would you require them to wear?

I wanted to throw this out, and see what you all thought. I think it would be interesting to have such a subject in a class.

[tori]

I had a person approach me with this just recently. He had previous experience in our style and was interested in training but not advancing to any rank. He wanted to only wear a white belt. I am only an assistant instructor, so obviously the ultimate decision will not be mine, but I would allow him to come to classes and train. I would train him the same information up to shodan, but I do not believe that I would teach him any black belt kata or techniques without being recognized as such. I would hope that he would eventually want to wear a rank deserving of his achievements, but that would be totally up to him. Really though, it would be up to the head instructor to allow him to take part in our dojo. I think it would be a welcome change however.

[jaedeshi]

Here is my question:

What if a practitioner from another style came to your school, and just wanted to work out with your class, on a regular basis (lets say as often as you meet in a week), but had no interest in advancing in your style? He just wants to work out, learn the techniques, applications, etc. Would you allow this? How would you approach it? What belt would you require them to wear?

I wanted to throw this out, and see what you all thought. I think it would be interesting to have such a subject in a class.

Excellent question!

I would allow it.

I would tell the student that for the purpose of letting other people in the dojo know his skill and knowledge level, he would have to wear the rank belt I assign him.

The belt I would assign all depends on his skill level.

In truth he is advancing in your style because as he is ready for next level of techniques he will be taught them. It makes no difference in my dojo as I have no testing fees etc or have any affiliations with any type of organizations. I don't even give out certificates to students. I guess your question applies differently to commercial, profit driven, and affiliated schools. Those schools often charge students for rank. So this student get to advance without the fees associated with gaining rank (testing, belt, certificate, and registration charges). Is that fair, that an outside student pays less and inside student pays more? If your regular students don't care about the rank advancement in your style or organization will they ask for the same? I think they will and they should.

Also note that this depends on your teaching structure. If you allow your students to learn whatever they can without adhering to strict syllabus. For example these are green belt techniques so only green belts and above practice them. I was once part of a school where you learned advanced sets that were not required for the rank I was currently in. So I was very happy with not testing. I wasn't losing out on anything except testing fees.

I look forward to hear what others have to say.

[Bushido-Ruach]

I don't think I would have a problem with it, but I would only allow him to work out with myself first until I could see what level he was at and exactly what kind of techniques he wanted to be working on, if he had any of what I might consider "bad habits" that he might pass on to my students...things like that.

I would be careful that he didn't come in and begin teaching my students things that he shouldn't. Each style has different philosophies behind them, and I wouldn't want someone coming in spreading a philosophy that might undermine or be antagonistic to my art's philosophy.

[Throwdown0850]

lets say if you did allow him to workout.. how much would you charget him? since he is not wearing a gi, not belt, no testing.. what would you do?

[bushido_man96]

lets say if you did allow him to workout.. how much would you charget him? since he is not wearing a gi, not belt, no testing.. what would you do?

In this case, I would have him wear a gi and belt, perhaps the one designating his previous rank, and he would be charged the same monthly fees as my normal students.

I would be careful that he didn't come in and begin teaching my students things that he shouldn't. Each style has different philosophies behind them, and I wouldn't want someone coming in spreading a philosophy that might undermine or be antagonistic to my art's philosophy.

I think that this is a valid point, as well. I would not necessarily try to change the way he did his techniques, either, though. I would offer insights as to why we do it differently, and I feel that something I do differently would benefit him, but not hold him to making any changes.

Now, if the person had some concepts and applications from his style that I did not have experience with, I would allow him to share them with the rest of the students in a class that he would demonstrate them in, if he was cool with that. If not, no big deal, either.

[jaedeshi]

lets say if you did allow him to workout.. how much would you charget him? since he is not wearing a gi, not belt, no testing.. what would you do?

What does the fact that he might not be wearing a gi or obi have anything to do with how much you charge him?

The testing fees I understand. Some schools include testing fees in their tuition rates and thus do not charge students when they test. In that case charge that student tuition minus the amount increased to include testing because they won't be testing.

[jaedeshi]

Alright lets take this a step further. You take this outside student you charge him less because he isn't receiving certification/rank in your style. Your other students want his same deal. They want to train with you but don't care about getting rank or certification in your system or organization. What do you do?

For myself this doesn't apply, I don't charge anyway.

[NewEnglands_KyoSa]

I would say, charge him for the classes he comes to. Let him participate, but let him keep his previous rank. i think it could be a good thing, just as long as he/she is humble in that they don't go, well at my other school we ______. and my other instructor said to do it this______ way. i think it could be a great learning experience for both the new student, the current students around him/her, and the instructor teaching him/her.

[Throwdown0850]

lets say if you did allow him to workout.. how much would you charget him? since he is not wearing a gi, not belt, no testing.. what would you do?

What does the fact that he might not be wearing a gi or obi have anything to do with how much you charge him?

The testing fees I understand. Some schools include testing fees in their tuition rates and thus do not charge students when they test. In that case charge that student tuition minus the amount increased to include testing because they won't be testing.

well if the student wants to come in and learn all the techniques and doesnt want to wear a belt, then he has no "ranking"... I think I would charge him the regular fee cause everybody is learning the same stuff, gi or no gi... belt or no belt...