Was the Olympics the right direction for TKD?

[DWx]

The Olympics have brought Taekwondo into the spotlight promoting the art to Martial Artists and non-Martial Artists alike. Martial Arts events rarely get that much media coverage (aside from MMA, boxing, fencing etc.) and by bringing TKD in as a medal category, TKD has been brought to millions more people. It is quite possible to say that it is one of the most popular Martial Arts as the media coverage has encouraged huge numbers of people to start training and so has brought forward new talent and energy to help TKD grow. The Olympics has also taken the mystery away from the Martial Arts as it used to be that you ask a person to define the term and they give a description of some sort of all super-powered Shaolin monk living in a cave in the mountains. MAs like Karate, Taekwondo, Juijitsu are more accessible for the everyday person and more acceptable to be taken up as a pasttime.

However, has making Taekwondo an Olympic event detracted from its original purpose as a Martial Art?

TKD is often the subject of many jokes and people say its useless or it doesn't work and you'd be better off with a more contact geared spot like Muay Thai etc. Since it has become an Olympic sport there are more and more TKD practitioners who just train the sport side, opting to not bother to fully train components like the forms or step sparring or even sparring that mimics a real fight. The block has become neglected because it serves little purpose in a match because no points are awarded and sparring matches are all about the points. Punches are redundant in Olympic TKD matches too because you can't punch the face and why punch to the torso when the leg can get there and keep your body out of the way? Looking at sparring matches in the Olympics, opponents often lose their balance when trying to reach that little bit extra yet if you lost your balance in a self-defense situation that would probably be the end. The lack of punches, blocks and needing to get that little bit extra spin on your 360 means that virtually no-one in the Olympics guards because what's the point? Quite often too you see practitoners cheering and celebrating after landing one kick yet that one kick may not be enough to disable an attacker. Its no wonder why people see the Olympics and regard TKD as more of a sport than Martial Art yet TKD is meant to primarily be a self-defense system.

[NightOwl]

I'm not quite sure if it really is meant to be primarily a self defense system anymore (from an official standpoint). That has mostly to do with nationalisim and politics than anything else. It's the official sport of Korea- the Koreans take a lot of pride in that. From what I can tell Korea never quite had the same martial culture as in japan, nor nearly the same amount of styles that were found in China. Most martial arts practiced today have very little to do with old Korean styles- Hapkido, TKD, TSD, and Kumdo all have a huge amount of (primarily Japanese, some Chinese) influence. However because of the past with Japan, the roots of these arts and the almost extermination of old korean styles such as Taekkyeon are often brushed over. With the acceptation into the Olympics Korea had a place on the world stage, and the more people who practice TKD, the more Korea has 'earned its place'. Also, flashy kicks and emphasis on demos with smooth forms as opposed to hard training is very fun to watch and appealing- if you had mostly full on matches TKD would have never had the rate of growth that it has had. Major TKD organizations such as the WTF don't have what's in the best interest of TKD as a combative style, but what is in the best intrest of TKD as a major sport. Whatever the training and purpose might have been for the style, it is mostly now promoted as the official sport of korea.

Now, there are plenty of TKDers who don't just train sport and focus on everything, as well as plenty of those who can kick you around as they please (see the KO from human weapon). However that isn't the main goal of TKD currently. I think it is somewhat comparable to Wushu. China has been pushing for it to get a spot in the Olympic games as the 'official sport of China'. Yes, it has a base in martial arts, but the point is for it to be a display, not a martial art. I do not believe TKD has reached that point yet- point sparring is still a form of sparring, and it is still very much a martial art. However the act of creating a national sport has in many ways superseded any other possible goals, and I don't see that changing in the near future.

[bushido_man96]

I don't really agree. The Olympics are the upper echelon of competition for TKD. Yes, there are those who like the sport side more than the other side. However, you can find many who enjoy the forms and more "artistic" side as well...they just don't end up competing internationally.

There are still those who teach the self-defense applications of the style, and it does exist. It is just a matter of finding the instructor that does it.

I think that being an Olympic sport is a good thing for TKD, because it keeps it in the limelight, and people recognize it. Sure, there are things that don't translate to self-defense, but it is the role of the instructor to make sure the student understands these things.

[NightOwl]

Is that the main goal however, of the governing bodies as a whole? I am not convinced that it is.

[Existence_is _suffering]

Great topic and arguements!... I have to agree with NightOwl though. The mere absence of a guard on a huge proportion of practicioners that compete says that they aren't being trained in a way that would point to being a more effective fighter, rather an effective competitor...

[DWx]

What irritates me the most is not guarding and blocking and just taking the kick so you can come straight back with a counter. Martially that is not very effective at all. If you look at TKD prior to the Olympics and its Olympic bid people were using the blocks and weren't falling over every time they did a roundhouse.

[bushido_man96]

What irritates me the most is not guarding and blocking and just taking the kick so you can come straight back with a counter. Martially that is not very effective at all. If you look at TKD prior to the Olympics and its Olympic bid people were using the blocks and weren't falling over every time they did a roundhouse.

This has been addressed and changed. They won't allow a point if you cannot maintain your balance during the technique. I think it was Herb Perez who used to do a spin hook kick, and would go down to the ground afterwards to avoid the counter. They changed the rules because of that.

As far as taking the kicks goes; most of the time, they are allowing the kick to come in so that they can spin and counter, striking the opponent while they are in mid-kick. Think of it as kind of like Boxing; you can't block every punch, and hope to punch back. Olympic TKD is the same way. I do agree that they should keep their hands up more, and block more, but they don't choose to. I don't think they are taught not to block; they just learn that using the hands to generate momentum and balance for kicking helps their purpose more.

Is that the main goal however, of the governing bodies as a whole? I am not convinced that it is.

What about Judo? It is an Olympic sport as well. So is Boxing. There is also a Karate governing body. Do you think that they have the same goals?

[DWx]

What irritates me the most is not guarding and blocking and just taking the kick so you can come straight back with a counter. Martially that is not very effective at all. If you look at TKD prior to the Olympics and its Olympic bid people were using the blocks and weren't falling over every time they did a roundhouse.

This has been addressed and changed. They won't allow a point if you cannot maintain your balance during the technique. I think it was Herb Perez who used to do a spin hook kick, and would go down to the ground afterwards to avoid the counter. They changed the rules because of that.

Ok my point becomes redundant then. I still have yet to see an Olympic fight where both competitors remain on their feet though. I'll have to wait until later this year...

As far as taking the kicks goes; most of the time, they are allowing the kick to come in so that they can spin and counter, striking the opponent while they are in mid-kick. Think of it as kind of like Boxing; you can't block every punch, and hope to punch back. Olympic TKD is the same way. I do agree that they should keep their hands up more, and block more, but they don't choose to. I don't think they are taught not to block; they just learn that using the hands to generate momentum and balance for kicking helps their purpose more.

Seeing this type of sparring makes TKD look bad with regards to the self defense aspect, at least with the other Olympic MAs it looks like some damage could be done. The boxing is definately full contact and the judo techniques look like they have an effect. Olympic TKD just doesn't. The Olympics has put an emphasis on scoring points rather than fighting effectively. Fighters are training themselves in this way and leaving the self-defense aspect behind. Sure plenty of people train both ways but there are equally plenty who only train the sport aspect and focus on the winning medals as opposed to fighting/defense skills.

Was the Olympics bad for TKD as a sport? No. Was it bad for the Martial Art? I think this is a yes.

[bushido_man96]

Seeing this type of sparring makes TKD look bad with regards to the self defense aspect, at least with the other Olympic MAs it looks like some damage could be done. The boxing is definately full contact and the judo techniques look like they have an effect. Olympic TKD just doesn't. The Olympics has put an emphasis on scoring points rather than fighting effectively. Fighters are training themselves in this way and leaving the self-defense aspect behind. Sure plenty of people train both ways but there are equally plenty who only train the sport aspect and focus on the winning medals as opposed to fighting/defense skills.

At the last Olympics, my brother watched a match where I think a Korean competitor knocked out a 6'7" Greek competitor. Also, try taking some of the kicks they throw, even with the protectors on. They hurt. They shock you a bit. Knockouts do happen. Sure, mainly because they don't keep their hands up, but hey, that is their deal. If they don't want to keep their hands up, that is ok with me. I choose to keep mine up. If you watch the WKF Karate matches, they are more of a point game than the TKD matches are.

[NightOwl]

Karate- Definitely not going to the Olympics. There are so many different styles and groups that I would be very surprised if it ever happened. I'm sure some would like to go the TKD route, while others would rather be forced to watch all the 'karate kid' movies in a row until they went blind. Thus it is not really relevant here.

As for boxing- Olympic boxing is a very different rule set then normal. If you are looking to go pro athlete in boxing, you aren't going to be training Olympic style. Most likely your goal isn't even the Olympics, however even if you wanted to go Olympian your prior training probably would have consisted almost 100% of normal boxing training and fighting.

Judo is an interesting one as there is a lot of debate over whether the Olympics were good for it or not. The mindset of Kodokan is a bit different than the WTF- from the very beginning they were sending out judoka to take on and challenge all sorts, and to this day they still have a lot of pride in keeping judo in high regard even verses other martial arts. There is still a very high emphasis on high resistance training, and it doesn't nearly have the same amount of practitioners as TKD, particularly in the US where judo is (relatively) not that popular. Having said that however, the introduction into Olympics has taken away a ton of emphasis on ground fighting. Some splinter groups like the Kosen have bucked this trend, and with BJJ taking off more Newaza is coming into focus more. I think this is detrimental, as it made Judo less well rounded as a grappling art. Nevertheless, you still have to always go full contact to get a 'point' in Judo, whereas in TKD you don't have to (although I realize the KOs do happen). This physical difference in techniques helps shield Judo a bit more from falling into a point trap than TKD in my opinion, although I believe that both have suffered negative effects.