Seniority

[NewEnglands_KyoSa]

Here is a good exercise for you to perform the next time you hear grumblings about ranking and seniority in your class--make everyone take their belts off, and put them off to the side. Then ask everyone that if they had no prior knowledge about each other in the class, would you be able to tell who is what rank, without seeing any performances? See where that takes you.

that's a very good idea, bushido. we met for a little while this past saturday and came to the concusion that we need to say something before it gets out of hand and the master of my school is quite up set. but we came to the conclusion that it shouldnt be a 'drop for pushups' or 'here is how it is, if you don't follow suit, there'll be a problem' kind of thing. we wanted to do it in a less militaristic manner because it is a tough thing. i'll bring that up when i get to class, thats a very good idea.

now here's another question, do any of you guys have titles among black belts that give them rank, like in kempo, theres just black belts, then theres a sensei, then an associate professor, a professor, a senior professor and a grandmaster, and anyone who has tested and earned a title is granted like a higher position, does anyone have that?

[bushido_man96]

now here's another question, do any of you guys have titles among black belts that give them rank, like in kempo, theres just black belts, then theres a sensei, then an associate professor, a professor, a senior professor and a grandmaster, and anyone who has tested and earned a title is granted like a higher position, does anyone have that?

At 3rd degree, we earn the title of Certified Instructor. At 4th degree, we earn the title of Jr. Master. At 5th degree, we earn the title of Master. Otherwise, thats it.

Let us know how the talk at class goes. I hope the scenario works well for you.

[NewEnglands_KyoSa]

now here's another question, do any of you guys have titles among black belts that give them rank, like in kempo, theres just black belts, then theres a sensei, then an associate professor, a professor, a senior professor and a grandmaster, and anyone who has tested and earned a title is granted like a higher position, does anyone have that?

At 3rd degree, we earn the title of Certified Instructor. At 4th degree, we earn the title of Jr. Master. At 5th degree, we earn the title of Master. Otherwise, thats it.

Let us know how the talk at class goes. I hope the scenario works well for you.

we have the korean version of the kempo titling system...

it's kyo sa nim(certified instructor), sah bum nim(certified master instructor) and kwan jang nim(certified grandmaster instructor) and then if you are not one of the above titles, you are just a black belt. mr/ms/or mrs so and so, if not you are, kyo sa nim so and so or sah bum nim so and so. and one of the big problems is disrespect and disregard of titles. many people become bitter because they are not selected by the master to be promoted to a title. thats where some of our problems come from. and yes, i'll keep you posted on how the chat goes, hopefully we'll see a change right away! after that its just a matter of whether it sticks with these people.

[The BB of C]

The black belts at my Kuk Sool Won school tend to abuse their seinority. But they pull rank on me all of the time when I'm trying to ask them questions. They think every time I open my mouth I'm talking back.

[Zanshin]

The black belts at my Kuk Sool Won school tend to abuse their seinority. But they pull rank on me all of the time when I'm trying to ask them questions. They think every time I open my mouth I'm talking back.

That’s not necessarily pulling rank. They are probably grown ups who would rather spend their time training as opposed to trying to answer questions on stuff that they don’t really consider important.

If you feel that way perhaps you should direct your questions toward your sensei.

[NewEnglands_KyoSa]

The black belts at my Kuk Sool Won school tend to abuse their seinority. But they pull rank on me all of the time when I'm trying to ask them questions. They think every time I open my mouth I'm talking back.

i don't think thats necessarily pulling rank, and abuse of seniority maybe. but if they are instructors they are definately not doing their job, and thats the sign of a poor instructor. go to the master or senior instructor to ask you questions, if not, ask them here! we won't ignore you BB of C!

[ninjanurse]

I have many thoughts on this...especially after reading all the posts! While I agree with all those who contributed I do have a few comments to add. First, let me say that rank earned should account for something...what that is depends on the individual/situation/dojang/etc. In my opinion, respect is earned too and.....it should not be approached in any different manner than rank. They go hand in hand in my book....rank=respect. This is not to say that one demands respect based on the belt they wear but rather respect for self, others, the art, etc., grows with experience and time and a belt is the outward sign of this. I have senior students who will gladly "bow out" to a junior who is eager to bow class in (not an easy undertaking for many)...help them through their first time...encourage them to step-up to the responsibility...support their desire to grow...build up their confidence. They regularly trade amongst themselves so that all of them can gain experience and confidence. No egos here...just martial artists helping each other achieve their goals.

2 cents....change later!

[NewEnglands_KyoSa]

I have many thoughts on this...especially after reading all the posts! While I agree with all those who contributed I do have a few comments to add. First, let me say that rank earned should account for something...what that is depends on the individual/situation/dojang/etc. In my opinion, respect is earned too and.....it should not be approached in any different manner than rank. They go hand in hand in my book....rank=respect. This is not to say that one demands respect based on the belt they wear but rather respect for self, others, the art, etc., grows with experience and time and a belt is the outward sign of this. I have senior students who will gladly "bow out" to a junior who is eager to bow class in (not an easy undertaking for many)...help them through their first time...encourage them to step-up to the responsibility...support their desire to grow...build up their confidence. They regularly trade amongst themselves so that all of them can gain experience and confidence. No egos here...just martial artists helping each other achieve their goals.

2 cents....change later!

i wish all martial artists had your attitude, especially ones of my school. if they did i wouldnt have had to make this post!(i do enjoy posting and getting everyones opinions though!)

[gzk]

We line up in order of rank, highest rank to instructor's right. No particular way of tiebreaking and no-one really makes an issue of it if someone is out of order occasionally.

[NewEnglands_KyoSa]

We line up in order of rank, highest rank to instructor's right. No particular way of tiebreaking and no-one really makes an issue of it if someone is out of order occasionally.

well you have a very humble school sir. can you maybe share the humility with mine? they don't seem to get it