Seniority

[NewEnglands_KyoSa]

Among black belts in your school, how does seniority go? How do you know who stands at the very end of the line? Do you feel comfortable about it? Is there anyone here who's ever felt the person who stands above you, shouldnt? Have you ever had an issues with seniority?

Just curious because we've had some issues about this and i don't know whether to be completely alarmed or if its normal for schools to go through...

[cross]

At our school it goes in order of rank, if there are a number of people at the same rank it goes in order of age.

I wouldnt let something little like where you stand worry you to much. You show your skill on the mat, not in the position you stand in line.

[Rateh]

I have not seen this problem in my current school. I have a great deal of respect for everyone that stands in front of or behind me. I am not aware of whether or not those that stand behind me think I should not be in front, since I am not yet a black belt in the system. I have never experienced anything but respect from them however.

At my last school I always stood in front, and since I was senior in age, rank, and years in martial arts, aside from the head instructor, I felt I was right to be in front. Though again I respected those who were my juniors. I did not respect my senior however, and that is why I am no longer there. I respected his skill though.

[NewEnglands_KyoSa]

At our school it goes in order of rank, if there are a number of people at the same rank it goes in order of age.

I wouldnt let something little like where you stand worry you to much. You show your skill on the mat, not in the position you stand in line.

This i understand, but as one of the senior instructors of my school, i must take notice of these things. It does not worry me at all, i stand at the very front of the line but would not care if, i personally had to stand elsewhere. It has just become a topic among the senior of the schools when we meet because lately we have found people literally fighting for position, and we are thinking of a having a 'humility' talk. I hate rank and don't really care for it that much, it's my school that unfortunately needs to stop worrying.

[pittbullJudoka]

At our dojo it of course goes by ranks and if there are several in the same greade it's useally who shows up and get the spot first during self warm ups. As for people standing above me that's no issue most of those guys have years of training on me.

the only issue we've ever had on this is being polite and offering our pplace to another of our rank because of someone showing up for class late. I could care less who stands were as long as I'm getting to train.

[DWx]

Usually we do it primarily by rank, then who's been that rank the longest, then by age. Our dojangs not all that strict when its comes to seniority in normal class though, just as long as the right grades are in the right places because it makes it easier to do forms and stuff. We do actually have one class per week where its just cardio and sparring so we where tshirts instead of the full dobok. If we line up then you just stand whereever you like. Kinda refreshing to get to stand at the back of class.

[Zanshin]

At both my schools, rank is recognised by where you stand.

The most senior grade is always at the front and to the sensei's left (as he looks at the class).

In my Kobudo group, further observations are made, in that students will sit up out of "za-rei" according to grade. It is bad form for a junior student to arise before his senior, so the correct effect is like a Mexican wave, with the very newest student sitting up last.

[NewEnglands_KyoSa]

At both my schools, rank is recognised by where you stand.

The most senior grade is always at the front and to the sensei's left (as he looks at the class).

In my Kobudo group, further observations are made, in that students will sit up out of "za-rei" according to grade. It is bad form for a junior student to arise before his senior, so the correct effect is like a Mexican wave, with the very newest student sitting up last.

wow that is very interesting zanshin, i have never heard of that before! it makes sense too!

[Rateh]

We used to do the whole wave thing for bows at my last school. You couldn't come up from the bow till your seniors did. So it made a wave along the lines.

[bushido_man96]

Seniority, in my eyes, always ends up being one of those ego-based things. Here is how it is supposed to work in our school:

Rank first. The highest stands on the right. If both are the same rank, then it goes by time-in-rank. If there is a tie there as well, then I go by age; I allow the senior individual to hold position over me.

In the end, what does it really mean? Not much. Where you stand in line isn't really an indication of what you know or your understanding of the style. If it were me, I would stand at the back with the white belts every class if that is what it took for me to get the opportunity to learn.

I went through the who should be in front of who thing when I joined the school that I am with now. Before, I was a 2nd degree in a different organization; when I joined my current school, I had to start over at white belt. My technique compared to those of the low and intermediate ranks of the school were pretty good, and I had several more years in than most of the other students that were there. I didn't let it bother me, though. I just go about my business, and let things fall where they may.

Here is a good exercise for you to perform the next time you hear grumblings about ranking and seniority in your class--make everyone take their belts off, and put them off to the side. Then ask everyone that if they had no prior knowledge about each other in the class, would you be able to tell who is what rank, without seeing any performances? See where that takes you.