Does Wado Ryu have a lot of Ju Jitsu in it?

[Mtal]

I was reading that the founder of Wado Ryu started off in Ju Jitsu, but then went on to train in Shoto Kan cause he wanted to add more striking.

So what is Wado Ryu like? I done Shoto Kan and Ju Jitsu, I would say there teaching was done in different ways. Shoto Kan we did lot of practicing our punches, blocks, kicks, and kata. Ju Jitsu, lot of partner work, some practice of punches, blocks, and kicks. So what is a Wado Ryu class like?

[Dobbersky]

Mtal-san

Although I am a Blackbelt in Ashihara Karate, I am only a Green belt in Wado Ryu. I have studied many other styles though so I'll assist you as best as I can. I recommend finding some Wado Ryu books in the library to read on the subject too.

From what I can see in Wado Ryu we tend to have more emphasis on Tai Sabaki on the techniques. Some of the techniques in the Kata has either changed or kept the same as the original. Wado Ryuka practice almost the same Kata, as in Shotokan, although names are different to some.

Regards the 2 man techniques etc there is where the Jujitsu aspect comes in but I would say the true 'Jujitsu' is taught as senior Kyu grade and above level.

Bunkai (application) also is an important part of Wado Ryu for most if not all kata, seeking all the 'hidden' techniques in each kata. From this you can actually see how much of a 'complete' art Karate is.

I hope this helps

Osu

[Zanshin]

Well yes and no I think.

The Jujutsu that Otsuka sensei knew (Shindo Yoshin Ryu) was a "Koryu" jujutsu or old school art (pre Meiji restoration (1868)) and as such was a complete combat system for the time or "Bugai" within which a lot of kenjutsu (Sword), atemi (vital point striking) and other related field combat arts were practiced.

Very different to self protection, or sport type Jujutsu (throws and ground work, pressure points etc.) that to most people today is the sum total of what the word Jujutsu means.

As far as the Shotokan bit is concerned, well yes and no again really. Otsuka sensei did start his karate training with Funakoshi sensei (founder of Shotokan) but at the time, not only had it not been named as "Shotokan" but also it was very different really to the Karate that is practiced in many JKA based Shotokan dojo around the world today.

It’s probably best to say that the Karate parentage of Wado is more along the lines of the "Shorin Ryu" family of Okinawan Karate.

As to whether Otsuka wanted to learn Karate to give his Jujutsu some "Teeth" I don't know, but I believe it was his son that, when asked what percentage of Wado was Okinawan Karate as opposed to traditional Japanese Jujutsu answered along the lines of:

“Okinawan Karate is to Wado as a pinch of salt is to a stew.”

[dmacdonal9]

Right, it's kind of complicated for two reasons: one is that when people today think jujitsu, they think of UFC guys rolling around choking each other, but it apparently isn't about that in classical schools of Jujitsu.

The other is that jujitsu principles were incorporated into Wado more so than actual techniques (for the most part). Principles are obviously less visible than techniques.

Here are some of the important principles that I've been told come from Jujitsu (by no means exhaustive, these are just the ones I happen to know):

- Taisabaki, where we incorporate techniques to move off the line of attack to achieve some advantage (deflecting, dodging or parrying). As a result, our blocks are more deflective than most.

- We use higher, lighter stances from Jujitsu, and not the deep "rooted" stances you see in Okinawan karate.

- Sen. Timing and awareness are used so that we allow an attack and then counter, counter and attack simultaneously, or we attack as a pre-emptive counter. I think this is one reason why some people claim Wado looks "faster".

- Noru, where we use mobility to "float" around a technique, like performing a spinning backfist as we dodge an attack.

- Nagasu, where we evade and/or deflect as we attack. We have a punch called nagashizuki, where we shift off the line of attack, and deflect the opponent's punch with our own punching motion.

- Irimi, a particular flavor of taisabaki where we enter an opponents fighting space off the line of attack for some advantage (also seen in Aikido as I understand). This shows up often in our partner work in preparation for a throw or takedown.

- There are a few specific techniques like hand turning (Kote Gaeshi) and arm locks (Wan Kansetsu) that I think are Jujitsu that you see in some of our partner work.

- I suppose the spirit of Japanese budo that we (hopefully) see in Wado comes from Jujitsu as well. I think this is why some people say Wado is the most "spiritual" of the big 4 styles. This depends largely on a person's particular experience and intent though.

- We learn specific kneeling, knife, and sword defences that I believe came from Shindo Yoshin Ryu Jujitsu.

There are more, and I am sure some of these ideas are probably also seen in other styles.

But these are all very difficult things to see. I would bet that the most the casual observer might notice is that our stances are higher, which they probably interpret as us being "lazy"

[Zanshin]

Hi dmacdonal9,

Good post and welcome to the forum. Nice to have another Wado Guy here.

I see you train with the Wado Kokusai. Have you managed to train with the man himself (Mr Suzuki).

I think you have summarized Wado well (not easy to do). As you say, many if not all of the techniques practiced in wado are apparent in other styles of karate but the difference is the way they are applied.

For me, the way that Wado practitioners move is the key to applying the unique principles of wado.

[dmacdonal9]

No, I've never met Suzuki Sensei. My instructor recently attended the Suzuki Cup in Texas, where he was lucky enough to drop in on a relatively private training session and he got a good grilling on the status of our club and such He managed to get a few belts signed too.

Apparently the word there was that Suzuki will likely not visit North America again. I'm not sure how firm a decision that is, but hopefully it's not true.

[Zanshin]

Hi dmacdonal9,

Mr Suzuki was and still is a powerful force in Wado karate here in the UK. He was the key protagonist in disseminating Wado throughout the sixties, seventies and into the eighties.

A vast majority of the senior instructors here in the UK, now in their 50/60s and 7th dans + etc., were originally taught by him. That’s some feat.

Sadly, I am led to believe that he is not in the best of health these days and maybe that’s the reason behind not being able to visit North America again.

I have been invited to attend a Suzuki course here in the UK next month, but am unsure as to whether I will be able to attend.

Question for you, do you have Maegeri in your Wanshu?

[dmacdonal9]

Yep, I know every time I see a video of him in action, I have to go and check the date to see how old he was. I can only hope for a small part of that kind of old age.

We do maegeri in wanshu. I had heard it was one of the differences between organizations, but I don't know which one added it vs took it out. Apparently there's some confusion over it.

Here you can see Suzuki doing it without:

And Fukazawa doing it with: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmKYDG_TkUM

I think the Suzuki footage is older though...

[Wado Guy]

Dig deep into the Wado Katas, jujitsu is there.

[Dobbersky]

Sensei,

I would love to become an Uchi Dechi at a Wado Ryu Dojo. I long to learn the Senior Kata from Kushanku, Naifanchi, Chinto etc.

Sometimes it is difficult being Shodan in Ashihara, with students of my own and to be a lower Kyu Grade in Wado (Green Belt). I have been advised in other styles (they are not Wado but are Japanese based styles) they would honour my grade and I would learn it through the years, but Wado Fills the Gap that I feel. Your thoughts on this one.

But I think, well I need to earn my Blackbelt the way I earned it in Ashihara.

Osu