Bunkai for specific attacks?

[Zorbasan]

i think there is core attack that a move was designed for. but there are also many other things that a technique can be used on.

take a gedan barai for example. most obvious use is to block a low attack with it. but it can be used as a strike or a disengage.

Well, I disagree that it is a low block of any kind. JMO.

Strike, break, lock, or throw, but never a block.

I think there are many ways to train bunkai. First start with a specific attack then work different ones with the same intent, but at different angles and with different targets.

you wouldnt use gedan barai to block a mai geri?

our first introduction to defending against the mai geri is to use a gedan berai.

[ps1]

i think there is core attack that a move was designed for. but there are also many other things that a technique can be used on.

take a gedan barai for example. most obvious use is to block a low attack with it. but it can be used as a strike or a disengage.

Well, I disagree that it is a low block of any kind. JMO.

Strike, break, lock, or throw, but never a block.

I think there are many ways to train bunkai. First start with a specific attack then work different ones with the same intent, but at different angles and with different targets.

you wouldnt use gedan barai to block a mai geri?

our first introduction to defending against the mai geri is to use a gedan berai.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion of course, but to attempt blocking a front kick with your arm is kinda like trying to use a baseball bat to knock a train off it's tracks.

Most kata using a low defend (gedan barrai) step into the movement. If you're trying to block a front kick with that exact movement, that means you're putting yourself directly into the line of fire of the kick. Not what I would recommend.

[Zanshin]

I tend to agree.

From practical point of view, blocking a kick with your arm using gedan barai or any block for that matter, is not always the safest thing to do.

I think that it is often practiced that way against a partner in yakusoku kumite, but perhaps that’s more to help students learn principles of distance and timing etc. rather than practical application.

Don’t get me wrong it could work but your timing and footwork would have to be spot on, otherwise you are risking a broken arm.

Arms just aren’t as strong as legs.

[Zorbasan]

well, im not exactly attempting to stop the leg in its tracks. im stepping back or sideways and using the gedan barai to deflect or redirect the kick.

on your comments the only way to block a kick is with your leg, which makes it quite hard to do.

given the option, ill take the broken arm over broken ribs from letting the kick thru.

[Killer Miller]

The object of a block is not to strike, but to deflect and redirect through good timing when the leg is in the relaxe stage of the kick.

So, with practice and good timing, gedan barai is very effective and safe to use.

- Killer -

[Zanshin]

Yep, but focus should be more on moving into the correct possition -back or sideways etc. (and timing of course) in order to allow the kick to be deflected safely. As Zorbasanhas said.

[Zorbasan]

the direction you step has no bearing (to a degree) of the technique to block.

i can step to the side and use a gedan barai effectively.

[Brian S]

Uke in it's literal translation means "to receive"

Uke does not mean to block. It's an incorrect interpretation of the word, therefore confucing the masses and causing the schoolboy karate we have across the country today.

Karate = punch, block, block, kick, block block block.

Karate techniques are trapping, throws,strikes, locks, and breaks, but never a block.

[tengu-raven]

Uke in it's literal translation means "to receive"

Uke does not mean to block. It's an incorrect interpretation of the word, therefore confucing the masses and causing the schoolboy karate we have across the country today.

Karate = punch, block, block, kick, block block block.

Karate techniques are trapping, throws,strikes, locks, and breaks, but never a block.

granted many dojo have taught karate as you described with only blocks and strikes. there's no argument here of karate having a lot more dept than less than qualified sensei have introduced to students. hence the poor quality of instruction and current impression of karate held by many these days.

the example of using gedan barrai against mai geri might be a little deeper than it's a good or bad idea. the application we use in shotokan is to step offline and use the gedan barrai to deflect and grab the kicking leg of the opponent. yet i've often heard the application was originally to strike the ankle of the opponent kicking leg with backfist.

the latter does'nt seem any more feasable than just attempting to block an incoming front kick or most kicks for that matter. my initial thought would be that's a good route to a broken arm. yet i've been in some bad spots where it was neccesary to use blocking movements. just a month back we had a student block an incoming side kick and the other student ended up with a broken foot.

[tengu-raven]

there i'd have to disagree with learning specific attack/defenses as learning the principle gives the student options of how to use the same material in different ways.

Principles are important, but at some point you must say "using the principles found within this sequence of movements we can defend against .

The balance between teaching principles and being 2 specific is important.

we agree that some practical examples of the principles are neccesary and should be learned. my concern there is the when the opponent does this you do that mentality. too much learning a specific counter for a specific attack. what happens to a student when faced with an attack they have never been trained a counter for?

there is the very heart of problems in many dojo. there are nuances to any technique like gedan barrai mentioned here. it's not just a blocking motion or just to defend against mai geri. yet that's exactly how it gets taught in many dojo. the principle should be taught first with several examples not just one attack=one defense.