Rival martial arts

[YoungMan]

There is/was a rift because Choi insisted on calling himself the founder of Tae Kwon Do when he was not.

[bushido_man96]

There is/was a rift because Choi insisted on calling himself the founder of Tae Kwon Do when he was not.

I would say that Choi was the founder of what we know as TKD. He was the driving force behind the unifying of the Kwans that came to be know as TKD; I think he came up with the name itself as well. I know that there were some that did not follow him, though. Aside from that, before TKD was established, the Kwans were pretty much teaching their versions of Karate that they learned from the Japanese.

[YoungMan]

Helping to unify the Kwans is not the same as creating a martial art. He promoted Tae Kwon Do, but contributed little to the substance aside from the sinewave. Most of the substance he got from Chung Do Kwan, of which he was a student according to Won Kuk Lee. As was Ki Hwang.

As for the name, there is a debate as to whether or not he created it. He says he did, but Duk Sung Son claims Choi stole it from him and took credit.

[DWx]

Helping to unify the Kwans is not the same as creating a martial art. He promoted Tae Kwon Do, but contributed little to the substance aside from the sinewave. Most of the substance he got from Chung Do Kwan, of which he was a student according to Won Kuk Lee. As was Ki Hwang.

As for the name, there is a debate as to whether or not he created it. He says he did, but Duk Sung Son claims Choi stole it from him and took credit.

He added more than just the sine wave, he was the co-creater of the Chang-Hon forms, arguably the first Korean TaeKwon-Do forms as the other Kwans used the Pyong Ang forms until '67 when the Palgwe were created. He also developed military TaeKwon-Do through the Oh Do Kwan which introduced a significant amount of Koreans to the art. Probably a better word that is sometimes used to describe him is a Father of TaeKwon-Do as he did help to nurture it especially when he was President of the KTA.

[bushido_man96]

Helping to unify the Kwans is not the same as creating a martial art. He promoted Tae Kwon Do, but contributed little to the substance aside from the sinewave. Most of the substance he got from Chung Do Kwan, of which he was a student according to Won Kuk Lee. As was Ki Hwang.

As for the name, there is a debate as to whether or not he created it. He says he did, but Duk Sung Son claims Choi stole it from him and took credit.

He added more than just the sine wave, he was the co-creater of the Chang-Hon forms, arguably the first Korean TaeKwon-Do forms as the other Kwans used the Pyong Ang forms until '67 when the Palgwe were created. He also developed military TaeKwon-Do through the Oh Do Kwan which introduced a significant amount of Koreans to the art. Probably a better word that is sometimes used to describe him is a Father of TaeKwon-Do as he did help to nurture it especially when he was President of the KTA.

Very good points. Choi did a lot to promote TKD as a Nationalistic Art of Korea. Whether he went about this the right way or not is subject to debate, but he still did it. I think he was fairly responsible for creating the wedge between Karate and TKD, to seperate them, which what the Koreans wanted.

Many times I think that Gen. Choi is slighted more for his association with North Korea than anything else.

[Zorbasan]

i dont think the rivalry is between 2 specific arts. i think you will find that its "any school with a close minded instructor" vs any other art.

the problem is these people beleive that their style is the ultimate and that all other styles pale in comparison.

this happened to me when i was doing TKD they would kick people out if they found them to train in another style.

when i started karate (which my school is very much in favour of cross training and doesnt beleive their art to be the best, esp since the sensei is > 2nd dan BB in 4 styles) and i decided that i might go back to a different tkd school i was told by 1 that i had to quit my karate and concentrate 100% on my tkd.

[YoungMan]

Helping to unify the Kwans is not the same as creating a martial art. He promoted Tae Kwon Do, but contributed little to the substance aside from the sinewave. Most of the substance he got from Chung Do Kwan, of which he was a student according to Won Kuk Lee. As was Ki Hwang.

As for the name, there is a debate as to whether or not he created it. He says he did, but Duk Sung Son claims Choi stole it from him and took credit.

He added more than just the sine wave, he was the co-creater of the Chang-Hon forms, arguably the first Korean TaeKwon-Do forms as the other Kwans used the Pyong Ang forms until '67 when the Palgwe were created. He also developed military TaeKwon-Do through the Oh Do Kwan which introduced a significant amount of Koreans to the art. Probably a better word that is sometimes used to describe him is a Father of TaeKwon-Do as he did help to nurture it especially when he was President of the KTA.

The Chang Hon forms were essentially Shotokan forms with Chung Do Kwan kicking. And he didn't create all the forms. Some of them were created by various Chung Do Kwan black belts as they joined the Oh Do Kwan. Some, if not many, of the Chung Ho forms were taken wholesale from Japanese karate, which is where Choi got his original training.

However, to his credit, Choi did recognize the need for Korean-based forms. It was a first step.

[bushido_man96]

I have seen some of the Shotokan forms, and you can see the similarities between them and some of the Chang 'On forms. However, they are more than just Shotokan with Korean kicks. They have been modified, some of them quite significantly. But, with Choi's training in Shotokan, this influence is to be expected.

[ps1]

Just from reading some of what is being said here. Is it reasonable to believe, then, that there may have been some TKD precursors that did not practice forms?

[DWx]

The Chang Hon forms were essentially Shotokan forms with Chung Do Kwan kicking. And he didn't create all the forms. Some of them were created by various Chung Do Kwan black belts as they joined the Oh Do Kwan. Some, if not many, of the Chung Ho forms were taken wholesale from Japanese karate, which is where Choi got his original training.

However, to his credit, Choi did recognize the need for Korean-based forms. It was a first step.

Choi did not create all the forms from scratch himself. As I said earlier, I was under the impression he co-created them with Nam Tae Hi. So yes it is highly likely that they were a hybrid of Shotokan and Chung Do Kwan. Tae Kwon Do itself as a whole is hybrid of Korean, Japanese and Chinese martial arts anyway so the forms are bound to reflect the origins.