What would you do if...

[Eager To Learn]

Id probably try to knee them in the lower back which would hopefully knock them forwards onto there hands and thus of balance - I would then strike at their elbow whilst rolling out and hopefully they would drop down at which point I would either get on top and pound to the head for all im worth or leg it depending on my mood at the time. lots of ifs and buts though if you get my drift.

[CTOWNP]

Ive been watching videos on gracie and the answer is sweep the opponent.first you need to make sure his knees are not up to far on your body, slide out till your elbows are passed his knees on the ground you need to use both hands on the arm that is choking you. one grabs the wrist with four fingers not the thumb the next hand grabs the upper arm close to the arm pit. then you need to hook the leg on the same side that you have the arm by. you then push up your hips as hard as you can strait up rolling to the side that you have securly grabed the arm and leg. this will leave you in a mounted possition on top. I might be missing something but this is what I have recently learned from instructional videos. It is easier said than done and it is certainly diffacault against a resisting opponent thats hitting you in the face.

[ps1]

Ive been watching videos on gracie and the answer is sweep the opponent.first you need to make sure his knees are not up to far on your body, slide out till your elbows are passed his knees on the ground you need to use both hands on the arm that is choking you. one grabs the wrist with four fingers not the thumb the next hand grabs the upper arm close to the arm pit. then you need to hook the leg on the same side that you have the arm by. you then push up your hips as hard as you can strait up rolling to the side that you have securly grabed the arm and leg. this will leave you in a mounted possition on top. I might be missing something but this is what I have recently learned from instructional videos. It is easier said than done and it is certainly diffacault against a resisting opponent thats hitting you in the face.

The defense you're describing is called the "upa." It will lead you to the opponent's guard though...not a mount. It's a very good escape.

The point of my discussion here was not, however, to say or show what a grappler would do. Rather to get a feel for what the non-grappler is likely to try.

[CTOWNP]

Sorry PS1, I just watched how the technique was done and I was very excited to give an answer. I wouldnt consider myself a grappler and I have only recently started the martial arts. I didnt meen to ruin the post I just didnt know when someone was going to give an answer. I know this ends up in your opponents guard but I also learned a guard to full mount manuver that I would do as soon as I transitioned. even with this knowledge against a skilled bjj opponent it wont go down like that but it is just somethin nice to know.

[tallgeese]

It's tough with the "without grappling" stipulation. It's been awhile since I wouldn't transition to a ground game. The obvious answer to me that wasn't warned off is "learn to grapple", it will drastically increse your odds of being able to deal with this situation.

That said, i''ll try and tackle this with resorting to a grappling thread.

First up, if you're carrying a weapon, cover that punch with a close boxing style parry wth one hand and shift your body to access it with the other. We've practiced in class and you can even buy time to open a folder if you position your body right. Usually, covering the movement with the bulk of your mass. Then deploy it. Is this easy, no. Nor is it impossible.

If you have to go it empty hand agaist this very signifigant threat then you have to do as much damage as possible quickly. Preferably while taking his will to fight away as well.

The eye gouge is the obvious go to choice here, but it's hard to get to if someone is postured well back, which is usually the case when one is winding up on a punch. This is where the knee to the back works well, it should drop the bad guys center low enough for you to drop in an eye gouge. If the dude has hair, I'd grab it as well and yank him down to me. This will keep him down a bit better and give me counter force for the eye gouge.

As for the mechanics on the gouge, I'd go with the thumb in the eye, bury it deep, and try to use a rotational motion with it and the hair grab to rotate his center off of me.

On a movement like this, you have to be 100% committed. If you only half-way an eye gouge from such a negitive body position, you will in all likelyhood just further serve to anger him and encourage further beating. And he's in a much superior position than you are. If you go full tilt, you might just hurt and destablilze him enogh to get him off of you. If you stick the eye and don't get the roll right away, I'd hang on and keep grinding it. It may back him off in an effort to get away.

If the knee to the back isn't working, and if he's postured well it may not, I'd try attacking the support arm that he's trying the choke with. Not to demoslih it, but just to serve the same purpose as the knee. I'd probibly try and keep my elbow high to attempt to cover that incoming shot.

Just some thoughts.

[ps1]

Sorry PS1, I just watched how the technique was done and I was very excited to give an answer. I wouldnt consider myself a grappler and I have only recently started the martial arts. I didnt meen to ruin the post I just didnt know when someone was going to give an answer. I know this ends up in your opponents guard but I also learned a guard to full mount manuver that I would do as soon as I transitioned. even with this knowledge against a skilled bjj opponent it wont go down like that but it is just somethin nice to know.

I must sincerely apologize I, in no way, meant to make you feel as though your comment "ruined" the thread. I certainly do not think so. I guess what I mean is that I only wanted to confirm what were the most common defenses among those not trained in grappling arts. But anyone is always welcome to contribute to my posts. And the move you described is certainly a good one.[/b]

[CTOWNP]

no need to appologize, I didnt realize initionally the purpose of the thread. I recently have been so sucked in to brazilian jiu jitsu and karate that I most of the time have no clue what people mean and this is one where I did.

[mortalflesh]

Interesting you should ask this...this nearly same thing happened to me during a little rough housing with a grappler friend once. His hand wasn't on the throat...it was high on the chest if I recall but very simular. I don't remember how he was sitting on me but the only thing I could really see was his groin...he was sitting on my stomach/lower chest area I seem to recall. Anyway...with a clear sight at the groin and one free arm, I took a little swing. It didn't land hard simply because of the situation, but we all know it doesn't have to now does it? Needless to say he wasn't long rolling off and groaning after that.

Not sure if this would work all the time but in this particular spot at this particular moment...it worked just fine.

[bushido_man96]

Interesting you should ask this...this nearly same thing happened to me during a little rough housing with a grappler friend once. His hand wasn't on the throat...it was high on the chest if I recall but very simular. I don't remember how he was sitting on me but the only thing I could really see was his groin...he was sitting on my stomach/lower chest area I seem to recall. Anyway...with a clear sight at the groin and one free arm, I took a little swing. It didn't land hard simply because of the situation, but we all know it doesn't have to now does it? Needless to say he wasn't long rolling off and groaning after that.

Not sure if this would work all the time but in this particular spot at this particular moment...it worked just fine.

This scenario that you bring up here raises an interesting point. We have to keep in mind that when we all rough house and goof around, it is a different mindset than when someone may be trying to subdue or kill. The goal-orientation changes things, and someone may be willing to withstand a blow to the groin, standing or lying, in order to accomplish their goals.

[tallgeese]

This is an excellent point. To often we all get caught up in the "kick him in the groin" catch all. While it is an excellent and vaild movement, as bushdo man points out, it will not always work.

For one thing, he's right, the individual attacking you may want you dead bad enough that he dosent' care. Or, his adriniline is pumping enough that he dosen't even notice. In another case, he could be under the influence of drugs, heavily medicated, or drunk beyond feeling. Or he could just be that tough.

That's not to say it shoudn't be thrown, it should be used like anything else, in combination with other attacks.