The blurring of arts

[Zanshin]

having gone from TKD (itf style) to shotokan karate i have found that they are almost identical.

not only are the stances/techniques pretty much the same, with the exception of smoe details, even a lot of the kata mix in with what they taught at TKD.

4 years in and i still have the fact that im doing something TKD way pointed out.

damn 15 year habits.

Then you are probably missing the point entirely!

[Zorbasan]

not missing the point at all.

the ITF style of TKD has its roots in shotokan karate, therefore it is quite obvious that they would be very similar.

the fact that i still have a TKD wrist position every now and then doesnt mean i have missed any point at all.

[ps1]

Good post ps1!

Thank you.

[Zanshin]

I think I may have given you the wrong impression. The self improvement I was referring to was really more to do with improving things like your fitness, agility (mental and physical) and reflexes etc. I have been studying traditional Japanese MA for a few years now and to be quite honest I am not that bothered about the “spiritual enlightenment” that I may achieve through training. Some times I think that we in the west misinterpret the “do” or “way” side of martial arts too much along the humanitarian lines. Sure it has its values but it’s not really where I come from, (as it’s not with most of the Japanese Sensei that I train with).

That does clarify things a bit, thanks. You and I share some of the same sentiments.

One thing that does concern me in your post about Kihon Gumite, being the bedrock of Wado, and the spot at which you really learn to fight, and the fact that it takes 3 years to get to that point. Pehaps I misunderstand, but I think that the Martial Artist should be able to defend himself before this amount of time is up. If I am misunderstanding, then please let me know.

Don't be concerned. A student in Wado karate will improve their fighting ability before they start to learn Kihon Gumite in exactly the same way as students in other karate styles do - ie through the application of techniques learned in basics, pair work and Kata etc.

Kihon Gumite is probably best looked at as a way to maximise your fighting potential, taking into account the "physical" techniques you have learned up to that point. They basically contain the stratagems of one to one combat (heavily rooted in Kenjutsu) that are "realised" through the on going practice of these kata.

[bushido_man96]

That makes sense. Thanks for the clarification.

[tengu-raven]

not missing the point at all.

the ITF style of TKD has its roots in shotokan karate, therefore it is quite obvious that they would be very similar.

the fact that i still have a TKD wrist position every now and then doesnt mean i have missed any point at all.

the itf style of taekwondo looks far more like shotokan in respect to kata as the koreans built from japanese martial arts. there are some major differences in technique and emphasis yet the similarities are obvious as you pointed out.

recently i visited a tang soo do school (not sure about proper term) and was amazed how much it resembled shotokan. from what i could tell it used shotokan kata almost exactly with the exception of the arrangment of the kata.

although i'm a purist when it comes to maintaining a martial art style there are different ways of using the same kind of techniques and the exploration might lead to improvements for the use of the individual practitioner. during the past few years i've been checking out a couple of chinese styles that have karate-like characteristics. both xing-yi and wing chun favor linear movement and using the fist. who knows how that might change my practice of martial arts. just not in shotokan class.

[Zanshin]

not missing the point at all.

the ITF style of TKD has its roots in shotokan karate, therefore it is quite obvious that they would be very similar.

the fact that i still have a TKD wrist position every now and then doesnt mean i have missed any point at all.

Isn't there a risk that you are doing both TKD and Shotokan an injustice, by "blurring" them into the same martial art?

I understand entirely, that the codification of modern TKD is based on that of Japanese Shotokan. I know very little of TKD but a little bit about Shotokan, and it seems to me that the "Korean" roots of TKD "Tae-Kyon"? may have been lost a little in the modern "sanitisation" process?

Its great that you train in a ma that is very similar to your previous one, but personally, I would seek to learn more from the differences, rather than be too quick to make comparisons.

[Zorbasan]

i have learnt much from the differences. there was quite a few years break between me finishing up with TKD and starting up with shotokan.

i feel like i have learned a lot more from my study of karate than i did with TKD, and i have embraced the differeces of the arts.

however, my point was that there are many techniques that are extremely similar and on occasion i revert to a habitual movement that was ingraine in me from the 13 years of training in one art.

but i am a much better martial artist now than i was before i started shotokan and will continually endeavour to improve.

[bushido_man96]

not missing the point at all.

the ITF style of TKD has its roots in shotokan karate, therefore it is quite obvious that they would be very similar.

the fact that i still have a TKD wrist position every now and then doesnt mean i have missed any point at all.

Isn't there a risk that you are doing both TKD and Shotokan an injustice, by "blurring" them into the same martial art?

I understand entirely, that the codification of modern TKD is based on that of Japanese Shotokan. I know very little of TKD but a little bit about Shotokan, and it seems to me that the "Korean" roots of TKD "Tae-Kyon"? may have been lost a little in the modern "sanitisation" process?

Its great that you train in a ma that is very similar to your previous one, but personally, I would seek to learn more from the differences, rather than be too quick to make comparisons.

Not that it is a blurring, just noticing the similarities. If some things are the same, then it isn't really blurring. I see many people talk about digging deep into the meaning of things in the Martial Arts. Sometimes, you don't have to dig deep; a punch is a punch, and a kick is a kick.