should i ask permission...(read on)

[YoungMan]

If I had a potential student tell me that he studied karate as well, I would most cerainly tell him to pick one. It's not as if I have anything against karate-I don't. But I also believe in loyalty and concentrating your energy in one direction. Not to mention karate has its own culture, beliefs, way of doing technique etc. that can directly contradict styles like Tae Kwon Do.

I'm also not saying that TKD is better. I believe it's better to focus on one art and understand that before you branch out. And learning one art for 1-2 years does not qualify you to do that by the way.

Another problem we Americans have: a buffet martial art mentality. Learn several arts at once to be "well rounded".

[bushido_man96]

As I don't consider wrestling a martial art in the same sense as Tae Kwon Do, I wouldn't really have a problem with it.

What do you mean by that? Wrestling is one of the most widespread and oldest styles of martial arts- whether shuai jiao in china, the wrestling of the greeks, or modern day greco roman (which is actually mostly derived from a French grappling style with some other European styles thrown in despite the name), wrestling is a martial art in that it is a set system and school of combat moves. What about taking up Judo or submission wrestling or shuai jiao as mentioned before?

I agree with NightOwl completely. I think that Wrestling is a Martial Art, along with Boxing, Savate, MMA, Pankration, and Muay Thai and Kickboxing. Just about every culture that ever existed had some form of folk Wrestling that it used.

It appears that you only seem to disagree with cross-training in Eastern styles, from the way these posts sound.

Edited December 7, 2007 by bushido_man96

[bushido_man96]

I believe it's better to focus on one art and understand that before you branch out. And learning one art for 1-2 years does not qualify you to do that by the way.

You may not think that 1-2 years doesn't qualify anyone to branch off, but others may feel that it is. At any rate, it depends on what one's goals are in training. If someone wants to begin their training for a few years in a style, and then branch out and continue with their initial style and then another at the same time, then I don't see anything wrong with that at all.

Another problem we Americans have: a buffet martial art mentality. Learn several arts at once to be "well rounded".

There is nothing wrong with being a well-rounded fighter, and it doesn't make you any less of a Martial Artist. Besides that, it isn't a strictly American idea. The Pankratiasts of ancient and present Greece were obvious proponents of being well-rounded fighters.

I also think that Zorbs makes a good point about other aspects of atheltics. If a TKD student wanted to play football, it probably wouldn't matter to an instructor as much to do both of those activities, even though football practice may obviously cut into TKD training time. However, the idea of taking a seperate Martial Art that the student may be able to train in on off days for the other class would bother an instructor.

[Zanshin]

I often think that schools / Sensei that take a hard line against cross training in other MAs, come across as not wanting you to find out that the grass is greener on the other side.

[tengu-raven]

If I had a potential student tell me that he studied karate as well, I would most cerainly tell him to pick one. It's not as if I have anything against karate-I don't. But I also believe in loyalty and concentrating your energy in one direction. Not to mention karate has its own culture, beliefs, way of doing technique etc. that can directly contradict styles like Tae Kwon Do.

I'm also not saying that TKD is better. I believe it's better to focus on one art and understand that before you branch out. And learning one art for 1-2 years does not qualify you to do that by the way.

Another problem we Americans have: a buffet martial art mentality. Learn several arts at once to be "well rounded".

what an excellent post! over the years i've seen numerous students come and go at the dojo. the younger ones divide thier time between karate and sports during the seasons they participate in the later. thier progress suffers yet they often fail to understand why. not that i have any negative things to say about sports or the participation therof. yet one should not expect to have a number of intrests and do well spending little time in practice of a single area.

the adult students are no different. between job and home responsibilities taking any martial art classes proves difficult. yet the mentality of learning a number of styles remains. the idea of being a well-rounded fighter has it's merits yet not developing skill in any area is a common problem. although i have trained in different styles there is a strong base and long-term commitment. besides good karate has a lot to offer when enrolled in a good dojo. before looking somewhere else students might benifit to learn what the style they already learn has to offer.

thank you for expressing that a year or two does not qualify one to have learned a martial art. we have a former shorin-ryu stylist that picked up shotokan quickly yet the background was already there. some former taekwondo helped me learn a little faster. yet learning in a couple of years is exactly the reason for a number of studetnts claiming to know a martial art without understanding even the basics. what they often think of shotokan as is blocks and strikes.

the buffet martial arts mentality is alive and well here. in fact seems to grow every year. there's nothing wrong with long-term training in different styles yet the style of the month routine is nonsense.

[Dazed and Confused]

Tengu-Raven I think I agree with you and YoungMan, but to clarify are you saying that rather than bounce between styles (which I confess I am currently doing, but not by choice) you should focus on one style or that you should learn a couple of styles simultaneously but stick with them?

[tengu-raven]

Tengu-Raven I think I agree with you and YoungMan, but to clarify are you saying that rather than bounce between styles (which I confess I am currently doing, but not by choice) you should focus on one style or that you should learn a couple of styles simultaneously but stick with them?

what i really consider the most feasable route for training in different styles yet still learning something is like this.

first pick a core style. something that you want to learn the most and will stick with throughout. granted relocating for the job or recognizing a desire to learn something else might change the main choice of what style is learned yet there need be few changes. without long-term study and practice the dept of a style will never be realized.

after having spent time becoming familiar with your primary style at least in the sense of practicing basics then you might or not consider learning another style. the difficulty for me was not sacrificing time for shotokan classes and practice while finding time for learning something new. here is where a person has to ask why they want to learn something different to begin with.

sometimes i hear students talk about wanting to learn joint locks from aikido or throws from judo. there's a world of difference between wanting to expand your knowledge on an area that karate does'nt emphasise so much as opposed to not knowing karate has joint locks and throws to begin with. look at what your style has before looking elsewhere for the same material.

if a student does recognize they want a deeper base of throws and chokes for example then judo might fit the bill. the same goes for the joint locks and movement of aikido. there just needs to be some balance as to how the practice is divided. if a person likes judo or aikido that much better maybe they would move to that style. then again maybe just having a range of skills is desired.

what i've usually done is learn specific aspects of different styles that might enhance my karate. that's not the same as learning shotokan and judo and aikido. just spending time learning something valuable that might give me a few extra tools or preferably teach me how to use the same tools in shotokan differently.

for example there are seven basic throws in shotokan. learning a little judo or a lot if you prefer might teach someone a few similar throws. the same with joint locks. lately i've looked into a couple of linear chinese styles to examine variations on linear attack.

[tengu-raven]

the idea of being extremely well-rounded is great in theory. over time a person might have the chance to do something like karate and judo then aikido with escrima to cover all the bases. yet how much can the average person really learn and practice enough to become familiar with?

during the week i usually spend about 10 hours a day at work. my efforts are directed toward 6 hours of sleep. there 16 hours of the day is already gone. that does'nt count driving or getting ready for work. then most of us have obligations around the house. mowing the yard or washing dishes for example. with family additional time should be directed there. the end result being that not to many hours exist in a day for martial arts training to begin with.

most of us have jobs that have nothing directly related to developing martial skill. not to mention conditioning training is sometimes different than specific style training. how does the majority with those time constrictions expect to learn a great deal of material much less practice most of it? the best i can do is practice a few skills a great deal and learn more over time. the illusion of being an expert in every area is just that as we are'nt by and large professional fighters or martial artists in some other context.

over time i hope to learn a great many things about martial arts. yet i would rather be good at 10 techniques than know 50 that i could'nt use very well.

[NightOwl]

Actually, being well rounded / comprehensive systems were the norm for awhile. If you look at classical schools you'll see weapons work, striking, and grappling. Besides that, there pretty much isn't any style that is 'pure' and not influenced by importing things from other styles. The founder(s?...not gonna touch that one) who started TKD studied many martial arts. So did Kano the founder of Judo, the founders of many chinese martial art styles, etc. In fact, pretty much all of the 'masters' studied various styles, and I doubt that they invested 7+ years in each one. Yes, I agree that it is good to 'major' in something, especially between grappling or striking, but the idea of not branching out isn't a healthy one in my opinion.

[bushido_man96]

I agree with NightOwl. The problem with looking deeper into your own style is that most students won't get to look any deeper than their instructor takes them. If the instructor doesn't work on throwing/joint locking, then the student must look somewhere else, if that is what he/she wants.

The time constraints that tengu-raven pointed out do exist for a great many of us; there is no doubt about that. And many of us here are not professional fighters, either. In the end, it ends up being a matter of how well we apply ourselves in our endeavours, and giving ourselves enough time, and not rushing our results. If we choose to split our time, then we must accept that results will come only when our skills are ready.

Many people say that it is going to confuse and slow us if we choose to divide our time on two or more arts. However, this is exactly the way that most of us are rasied when going to school. We have multiple school subjects exposed to us, and must spend time on each of them. In the end, many choose one thing in college to focus on, but still have outside requirments that don't fit in with our focus.

Now, does this mean that instead of trying to cross-train two styles, that it is better to train in a gym that already combines the styles, like an MMA gym? Perhaps that is the best route for the avid cross-trainer. I am sure that there are some that may disagree with me, but I think that training in MMA can have just as much depth as training in a single art, or cross-training in two arts.

In the end, as individuals, we should explore what we want, and find out if it can work for us or not.