The Multi-Style Problem...

[nago]

I would rather know one block, kick or punch as second nature than know multiple blocks and attacks that I would have to think about. The seconds wasted in thinking can cost you a fight.

Nothing is wrong with cross training, but as mentioned above "information overload" is not a good thing. I believe if you are going to cross train in simular styles with simular techniques it should only be after you have a rock solid foundation in what you consider your base style.

[bushido_man96]

I don't think you get overloaded with too many blocks, but what you do get is variations on how each block is performed. Minor differences, I think. However, I don't know if it would cause that much overload or not.

[yingampyang]

('Ts been a while. Hello again! )

Well, I have a question about cross training... Sensei says, we have to learn to block without thinking, to make the block part of our reflexes. But when you are cross-training you learn different blocks for the same kind of attack. Now, if you want to really improve in both of your styles, you have to make both blocks become reflexive moves. But then, will you be able to actually choose which one you'll use, so that you can counter attack in a different way? Or will you have to make the second style you learn a secondary, alternative style? Also, if you are a genius and be able to learn three or more different styles really good, this problem expands.

What do you think?

I know 16 different styles , all have different blocking and attacting moves, my answer is simple " take what is useful and get rid of what is useless"

[Chikara]

Absolutely!

And it's probably best not to learn another at the same time if you're a beginner in both.

Also, if you're advanced in one and a beginner in the other, you'll already know how to learn the other.

Better to have 1 or 2 responses for many attacks, than to have many responses to 1 or 2 attacks.

[joesteph]

Sensei says, we have to learn to block without thinking, to make the block part of our reflexes. But when you are cross-training you learn different blocks for the same kind of attack. Now, if you want to really improve in both of your styles, you have to make both blocks become reflexive moves.

I've found that when we do blocks according to the dictates of the individual art, such as, as my art and belt-level utilize, one-step sparring, or drills that are exercises in combining called-for blocks and strikes, I do what the art calls its way, and this is as my instructor taught me. In sparring, I have been admonished for using what blocks I know from another art; I respond by remembering to perform within the confines of the dojang what the approved blocks are.

In an actual situation, I would not be using those blocks.

I learned how to use open hand blocks and was once quite good at them. I learned how to soft-block (as I call it), from slapping the strike to redirecting it. A posting I had read elsewhere in the forum had a reference to trapping, and I responded to having practiced smothering, but now that I have kept an eye out for trapping in postings (and in videos from Expert Village that I hadn't watched in a while), I realize that I had been doing a bit of trapping (the opponent's kicking leg) in the past; if I had the opportunity, I would practice it again. It's not taught in my art at my belt level; I believe it's taught at dan level only.

My instructor is now setting aside class time to incorporate what is not in the art; to my knowledge, Soo Bahk Do does not involve grappling, and that has been included in three of my last four classes. I applaud this, but wish the sparring were different, as it's geared towards what is tournament-ruled, and the tournaments are non-contact. Then again, from what I've observed, I don't know other adult members of my dojang who would do contact, so I cannot fault my instructor. However, when limited (be it blocking or striking), you begin to think--and react--only in terms of what is permitted, and while this sparring is better than no sparring at all, it's almost as though it's something done with a caveat within my mind.

I say that it's excellent to study different arts; reach a high level in at least one; think of other arts to study as well when appropriate, and determine how far you find you can go while still being proficient in the first art; obey the rules of each art; incorporate what you individually find useful as best you can until it is internalized.

[bushido_man96]

In sparring, I have been admonished for using what blocks I know from another art; I respond by remembering to perform within the confines of the dojang what the approved blocks are.

I find it strange that you would be admonished for using blocks in sparring that don't "pertain to the style." I would think that as long as it was effective, that not much could be said. Blocks tend to become a different beast in sparring anyway, not resembling the way basics are done. I find this kind of odd.

[tallgeese]

I agree with bushido man on this one. I'd be suprised if that ever happened.

[marksmarkou]

(Please dont take this as a dig as i mean no disrespect).

By the way you put your question it seems you have not trained very long in the martial arts. For that reason i think it would be wise you just concentrated on just 1 art for a few years or so. When you grasp the basics and learn that any type of reaction to any type of technqiue is never the wrong reaction, then you will be ready to cross train.

The reason i say this is becuase i used to think the same. I did Karate and Judo when i first started, got all confused as you are know and did not progress. After concentrating on just one and coming back to the other after a few years it definitly did me good.

[Tiger1962]

..... and the tournaments are non-contact.........

Not to get off topic here, but even in non-contact m.a. tournaments, when you do reach black belt (aka: dan level) you will see light contact permitted among the dan members - and I've seen some really go at it sometimes.

[joesteph]

..... and the tournaments are non-contact.........

Not to get off topic here, but even in non-contact m.a. tournaments, when you do reach black belt (aka: dan level) you will see light contact permitted among the dan members - and I've seen some really go at it sometimes.

This is actually something I wouldn't mind at all, Tiger; if it's light contact, and it does go up a notch, it goes to moderate. I've spoken with my instructor, who has done contact, but our art is a non-contact one. It's great for my children, but I'd thought she'd have times when the teens and adults could at least do light contact. It may be that, as a certified instructor, she can't; it could also be that, since it's a small dojang, how many adult students would be interested (or, if minors, would have parental permission) for contact?

I'm taking it more philosophically, now. I'm concentrating on being more proficient at my belt level, and I wouldn't be surprised if I skip the next test date. JiuJitsu is coming to my dojang next month, fitting in more with this thread, but I'm concentrating on bettering myself at Soo Bahk Do. I'm working on better blocking while sparring, and I'm not as aggressive in sparring offensively as I am when slamming away at BOB. I can honestly say that the benefit of having invested in a WaveMaster and BOB for home use has really paid off.

Do you know what's the most fun for me at the dojang, Tiger? It's when I help out on Mondays and Wednesdays, not only with my own special needs children, but also with other special children. On the adult days, I like when we do sparring combinations (my instructor has a bagful of them) with a partner, and on Thursday, an adult white belt was brought to me immediately to work together.

The way I see it, I'm still young (I'm only fifty-six ), so JiuJitsu, Taiji, and maybe even Aikido will still be there when I grow up. And at some point if I need to defend myself (some young buck looking for an older man as an easy mark), I'm ready to do so.