The Multi-Style Problem...

[Kain]

('Ts been a while. Hello again! )

Well, I have a question about cross training... Sensei says, we have to learn to block without thinking, to make the block part of our reflexes. But when you are cross-training you learn different blocks for the same kind of attack. Now, if you want to really improve in both of your styles, you have to make both blocks become reflexive moves. But then, will you be able to actually choose which one you'll use, so that you can counter attack in a different way? Or will you have to make the second style you learn a secondary, alternative style? Also, if you are a genius and be able to learn three or more different styles really good, this problem expands.

What do you think?

[dete]

if I look at simillarities, then let's say I'm taking Wing Chun & BJJ at the same time, they both help me improve in either art.

but to do this I don't really view so much from a technical stand point, but in principals.

attacking center line,

breaking body posture

establish dominant position

attack from an angle

[bushido_man96]

I don't think cross-training is bad. I think it allows you to see different ways to do things, and you can choose to focus on which suits you best.

When you are learning two different styles, it is important to not overload yourself. Like dete mentions, however, if the two styles are contrasting, then you should be ok.

When it comes to defending yourself, you shouldn't think about how you will be defending. You just defend, and take what comes, and give the same way.

[pittbullJudoka]

AS my sensei says the only wrong reaction is no reaction

[dete]

I think not training in other styles is equivalent to not ever leaving your hometown to travel.

I think being greatful, respectful & being loyal can still be maintained even if you go train in other styles.

[YoungMan]

But to a certain extent, cross training is like giving yourself too many choices.

Yeah, it is nice to experience different styles and approaches. But the downside to that is this:

Say you are cross training in 3 different styles. Something happens and you have to defend yourself. Your brain has three different styles to choose from, which takes time to sort out. Sort of like trying to decide in a restaurant what to get. How many times have you needed more time to decide?

Now, if you train one style you don't have to choose one of three options to use, because you have trained your reflexes to react instanteously in one style. You don't have to choose between Wing Chun, BJJ, and Tae Kwon Do.

Not to say other styles don't have something to offer.

[ps1]

This really has never been a problem. A block is a block is a block. What I've learned by studying several systems is how to seamlessly flow from technique to technique and opening to opening. The block/deflection/movement used is of no consequence as long as I am able to flow to the opening that ensues.

That said, it does take quite a while to develop those skills (I've been practicing for 22 years), and you do develop favorites. It's not likely that using a crane beak is ever going to cross my mind because I rarely practice it anymore. I'm more likely to palm heel or spear hand as these are habits I've developed (which is what it's all about).

However, I'm not dismissing your concerns as negligable. In Chuan Fa every student was required to pass a rigirous self defense course before beginning training in the core of the art. This was to help develop the basics on how to defend yourself. All of the techniques were basic, simplistic, and often overlapped. This is because Chuan Fa has some intricate movements that would be difficult to apply in self defense shortly after learning them (if ever). After earning my 3rd degree black belt in Chuan Fa, I moved onto Shotokan. Most of the "basic" self defense moves there were very similar to what I had already learned. The same went for Aiki Jujitsu and some of the standing techniques in BJJ as I began learning those as well.

In the Military we learned about the OODA loop. A person has to Observe the situation, examine the Options, Decide on an option, and Act. The fewer options you have, the quicker the decision. The same applies to self defense. However, the more advanced the practitioner, the more elaborate the options can be (this is where the years of practice are essential). For example: you sometimes see an MMA match where a person counters a punch with a kick to the head and is successful in achieving a victory. Does that mean I should teach that to a brand new student? Of course not. The basic defense should be as simple as possible. But as the student matures, the skill sets can mature along with him/her. That mature practitioner is able to make those observations and decisions much more quickly.

In the end, no matter how many techniques you know... the ones you practice the most are the ones you will use first. But having options is good in case your "plan A" goes awry.

[bushido_man96]

Very well said, ps1. When it comes to the OODA loop that you mention, it is very important to stay ahead in that loop. Forming those good habits is important for that.

I think that many people learn to do a block in one style one way, and then go to another, and it changes slightly, and then the worry about which you perform comes up. In the end, though, I think that the gross motor moves are going to be of more consequence than the finer motor skills.

My Self-Defense partner has a saying: if it worked, then you didn't do it wrong.

[ps1]

My Self-Defense partner has a saying: if it worked, then you didn't do it wrong.

I would agree!

[Zorbasan]

i think you might also find that a lot of blocks are very similar, despite the difference in style.

the other thing is that 1 style may have multiple ways to block the technique, so you have the same problem even tho you only do 1 style.

there are 2 reasons to block, the first and most important being to stop getting hit, the second is to open the opponent up for the counter. the blcok you do will be dependant on the way you intend to counter.

no point in traping a front kick if i want to counter with a reverse punch. and no point in blocking the front kick with a cross block if i want to sweep.