do belts mean anything

[Tim Greer]

On 2001-08-10 15:45, taezee wrote:

 

[SNIP]

 

..americans are not patient or disciplined enough to achieve a ligitamte black belt(the majority) the mentality seems to be "please ill pay you just make me a black belt and i will feel so good about myself nevermind if i am actually good it just sounds good when i am at a party and i can say hey im a black belt isnt that sooo cool" belts did at one time mean something

 

[SNIP]

 

I hate to burst your bubble, but this problem is no worse in "America" than in any other country, including China. It might not be quite so bad in China, but it's very close. It is just as bad in Canada, Europe, Australia, Mexico and other countries, as it is in the states. I don't know why people assume it's only so bad in America, and I'm a bit annoyed (not offended mind you -- because you're right about it) that people don't acknowledge all the same faults in other countries that also exist, just as they do in America.

 

Most people in the world are one or more of the following; lazy, clumbsy, out of shape, egotistical, impatient, stubborn, ignorant, stupid and most definitely unskilled and untrainable. If you can show me that Americans in martial arts are so much more grossly unqualified to have their belt ranks over say, someome from Australia, the UK, Canada, etc. to such a degree, then I'll be happy to eat my words. Of course, this isn't something we can really prove anyway, but this problem is definitely more far reaching than in America and is just as bad elsewhere.

 

Personally, any school that charges for you to go up in rank, is a con in my opinion. It's one thing to pay to be certified with an organization that will recognize you truly are this rank -- assuming you truly are! However, the other disgusts me. Furthermore, any school that gives out black belts to anyone that is under the age of 14 or 15 (and that's _really_ pushing it and they'd have to be one in 100 million in talent and skill!), then that too is a fraud. Surely, some schools might do it to keep kids interested and give them rewards and make them happy and have a goal -- that is fine... but to ever dare and assume or claim that truly means some child has reached such a degree of skills at such an age....well.. give me a break... to me, that is a sign that the school is not for me and it's not serious enough. I realize people need to make money, but for the most part, we all know what it means.

 

 

[Angus]

Yep, the problem is just as prevalent in Austalia as it is in America, only we're not as big a country (population wise) as the US...

 

Angus

 

 

[DarkMonkey]

Yeah. I imagine it's just as rampent here. I suppose the specific dig at America was because of the hollywood image of black belts portrayed everywhere. Except it's portrayed here as well. So blah.

 

I'm in several minds at the moment. On one hand I think our club is excellent and our Sensei superb in his training style and the way he talks with us. On the other: it does seem belts are extremely easy to assertain. I think the actual black belt grading is very hard, but up to Brown double stripe grade I think it's just a matter of turning up, remembering your moves and putting in some kind of effort... and grading.

 

Black belt in 3 years seems very quick to me, I always imagined the image of a black belt to mean 'Master' or whatever, I don't think somebody who has been training for 3 years can truely be a master of anything. But again: I believe it's the effort you put in, not the belt you are wearing. If people think that black belt is too easy and quick and commercial now we could imagine it as Lime-green belt and 2nd dan as traditional Black. I suppose that would take a more traditional time span to achieve and you'd have to reach a more impressive level.

 

Again: Don't really think any of that means anything, you only have to look at somebody performing moves and combinations to see how good they are. I have seen red belts exceed brown belts in that reguard. So there we are.

[F-S-K]

On 2001-08-11 06:38, DarkMonkey wrote:

 

I'm in several minds at the moment. On one hand I think our club is excellent and our Sensei superb in his training style and the way he talks with us. On the other: it does seem belts are extremely easy to assertain. I think the actual black belt grading is very hard, but up to Brown double stripe grade I think it's just a matter of turning up, remembering your moves and putting in some kind of effort... and grading.

 

i feel exactly the same man, love my dojo, sensei but just the belt system is pissing me off, but ill put the effort in and become a great fighter not a great *insert belt colour here* belt

 

 

[iamrushman]

a lot of times we as americans refer to america because we have no other reference point.....for instance, as for me i have been to other countries but have never practiced martial arts there.......so sometime it's hard to include other countries when speaking of certain things. such as the things mention in this thread.

 

it's all in your individual perspective.

 

just my humble opinion.

 

 

[Damo]

You guys are funny. The belt system was developed by a traveling Judo Master so when he went from school to school he could tell the experience level of the people he worked with by looking at them. This was done for safety , so novice students weren't injured. And i don't care if your a blackbelt, a thai boxer, a wrestler, or just a brawler unless you are well rounded in many differt areas of combat a person from any 1 style can pick apart your weaknesses.

[taezee]

thanks rush that was exactly what i was thinking..i only say america becuase thats all i know..i do not speak of things that i am not aware of...but my main point is i would imagine that it is far easier here to make a fortune exploiting the general public through martial arts schools..theres alot of money here and alot of naive people who are eager to part with thier money..someone correct me if im wrong....

[Bon]

::edit:: Edited September 29, 2002 by Bon

[Angus]

There is something about the human mind that makes us want to be better, and be actively recognised as being better than other people... That's how i've concluded the whole belt situation... I'm gonna let go of al worldy posessions and become the next Buddha i think...

 

Angus

 

 

[Joecooke007]

Belts are not everything. A belt means that you have had formal training and the belt allows you to show it. But some of the best fighters in the world have not had a belt.