TKD black belt exam

[KarateEd]

I have several questions. First, is it typical to have such a large panel of judges at a final exam?

I train in a rather small school, so we generally have 4-6 judges at a black belt testing, maybe one or two more on occasion.

And is it typical to have so many judges who are strangers to the students? My concern here is that I think the different studios may be judging according to different criteria/philosophies. The schools are in a period of transition, and it would be a shame if the students were the ones to suffer for it.

It would be nice to know that the judges were on the same page at the time of testing. However, so long as the criteria isn't too narrowly defined by each judge and is appropriate for the level being tested, then whatever each judge looks for it should be present in the student's performance. For example, one judge may pay particular attention to power, another to crisp technique, and another to the tester's spirit, but all of these should be present in a student testing for BB.

Second question. I'm still not exactly sure why my daughter didn't pass her exam (students don't get to see the scoring sheets, and they don't get any written feedback or detailed comments--is this typical?), but one main comment seems to be that she lacks power. I can understand that--she weighs only 80 pounds. Power has never been her strong suit. Precision and flexibility (very high kicks) are her assets. I'm afraid she will continue to fail retests because of lack of power. Is power mandatory for children and teenage black belts? Do you all feel that all children/teens can attain the same degree of power that an adult can?

At my school we always have a post-test summary of each student's performance at the very next class session. This lets the student know what they performed well on and what needs improvement. As for generating power, I wonder what their criteria was. I always look for strong kihaps, snapping techniques, hair that shakes with the execution of techniques (provided that the hair is long enough), and proper breathing, among other things. The criteria for power should be appropriate for the age and size of the student. If the school has a minimum requirement for power generation in order to obtain BB, they should inform students and parents of this.

One caveat, though, I wasn't there for the test and the trained eye of a judge can often spot things that an untrained eye does not. Perhaps the judges didn't have a problem with her physical power, but her spiritual or mental power (by mental power I don't mean "smarts" but determination)?

Ed

[DWx]

...she'll have to continue with the same material until she gains weight and "bulks up" (maybe I should get her some steroids!) and fits the traditional image of a martial artist

Definately no to steroids. She is not a body builder and should learn to work with the tools she has rather than cheat (IMO anyway). Plus steroids will play havoc on her young body and is illegal in most tournaments. I also don't believe there is a traditional image of a martial artist out there. Martial Artists come in all shapes and sizes.

I don't think our studio works enough on strength training with the kids, based on what you describe and on what I've experienced in the adult classes. Board-breaking and pad/wavemaster work aren't frequent enough. My daughter is now getting weekly private lessons, some of which will work on strength training, so I'm hoping this will make up some lost ground.

Private tuition should help but if she is not doing enough strengthening in normal class time, you will have to ensure that the private classes will actually be focusing on it. The benefit of both of you training is that you could train on your own at home. It might be worth you buying a hand held focus pad for both of you to practise with. I recommend something like this where the pad slaps together to make a sound. That way you both get an auditory response and instantly know how much power you are generating.

I hope the judges aren't looking for "dedication and perseverance," and that failing isn't part of the test for my daughter. That seems like a lot to ask of a minor. My daughter started TKD when she was 9 years old and has spent a third of her life in training. She's forfeited all other sports, dance, music lessons, and many other extracurricular activities and vacations because we can't afford more than one pursuit for her (and her grades would suffer if she spread herself any thinner). We had been hoping that she could take a break after earning her black belt, so that she could maybe take guitar lessons and confirmation classes and start babysitting--just do some of the things other kids do while she's still a kid. Time is passing so quickly for her. But instead the intensive training process continues, and really there's no end in sight; there's no guarantee of when she'll be ready to earn her black belt (if ever).

Unfortunately I'm going to have to disagree with the idea that she takes a break after gaining her blackbelt. Too many people think that blackbelt is the end of the journey, it is in fact the beginning. There really is no end in sight. Sure she can cut back on her training after attaining her blackbelt but to stop altogether seems kinda pointless in my opinion. Why earn the blackbelt at all? Why not just stop now? Sure she could tell everyone that she earnt her blackbelt in TKD but she would never aquire any of the knowledge that comes with receiving the grade. I myself started when I was 10 and my younger sister when she was 8, plenty of kids start out young. If you feel she really is missing out because she is not doing what "normal" kids do (if there is such a thing), you just have to find the balance between Martial Arts and other activities.

Right now my daughter seems committed to continuing her private lessons and somewhat committed to continuing to attend classes till she tests again. So I don't think she consciously would let one failed test put her off for life. But she has to fight the attraction of other activities, the fatigue of the chronically sleep-deprived teenager, and the boredom of the too-familiar as the months go by. The lure of the black belt (not a sure bet) may seem less worth striving for on a daily basis; it's hard to sustain enthusiasm indefinitely. As her mother I can "force" her to attend classes (I guess), but I hate to do that, and as she gets older I'm finding that forcing her works less and less well. I try to reserve "forcing" for instances where her health is at stake, or similarly serious situations.

I have to ask how much training she is doing if she is sleep deprived?

As for motivation and enthusiasm, I'm afraid that is something she has to find for herself. Inevitabley most people plateau in their training, either from staying at their current rank for a long period of time or because they feel like they aren't improving. In the end you just have to ask yourself why you are doing it and try to find ways of being motivated about it. As her mother you will have to decide whether to force her into training. If it really no longer interests her then I'm afraid there is nothing you can do but to call it quits. If you forced her to train in this instance she will probably just loathe going and will not improve. If however she doesn't want to go and it seems to you as it may be a passing phase, make her go. Speaking again from my own experience, my sister wanted to give it up around 5th kup. My mum said to her to keep at it until the time came to grade again, if she wanted to continue she could grade, if she wanted to stop then stop. In the end the child is now obsessed and goes out of her way to learn everything she can.

If I may say, this experience has totally disillusioned me from striving for a black belt myself. I'm testing this month for my brown belt, and if I am fortunate enough to earn it, I'll be happy with that. I can then learn the rest of the underbelt curriculum, and I'll feel I have achieved almost as much as a black belt. If I were to proceed to the final exam, it would ruin everything for me. The focus shifts to what you can't do, what you're weak at, where you fall short, what you can't take pride in. (I have no illusions about performing flawlessly no matter how long and how hard I train; I'm overweight and in poor health, and though I've come amazingly far since starting 2.5 years ago I'm never going to look like a "black belt.") It's sad for me, because my martial arts pursuits will come to an end soon, but it's the reality of who I am. I'm happy I've achieved what I have; it's more than I ever expected.

I'm sorry, but becoming a blackbelt is not an easy thing. Of course they are going to focus on what you can't do, be thankful that they are. Would you prefer it if they just handed it out to everyone because they could do a side kick and had trained for the minimum time? And also, I have to point out that you are not your daughter. Just because she failed, it does not mean that you will. I myself was overweight when I started (I'm still far from perfect) and never thought that I would ever get my blackbelt. You need to be totally positive about what you can do and try to improve on the things you can't do. That is part of being a blackbelt, recognising your faults and having the maturity in your training to take time to improve them.

Good Luck for your brown belt test later this month and I hope you do take it through to blackbelt

[ninjanurse]

I think I'm supposed to trust that they will help my daughter "fix" what needs fixing before the next exam. (That's a little difficult for me to trust, since they didn't help her get it right the first time--whatever it was--and I'm not sure what it is now so it's hard for me to monitor her progress and assess her readiness to re-test. Maybe I should step back here, but a young person's ego is at stake and it's already taken one bad bruising.)

The goal of an instructor is to give a student the tools to succeed...it is up to the student to use them. We can guide and motivate but we can not "do it for them". You yourself said that she knows the stuff so obviously they have provided adequate instruction in the technical aspects of the art. It is up to her, not you or her instructors, to find it within herself the understanding of what it means to be a Black Belt.

I hope the judges aren't looking for "dedication and perseverance," and that failing isn't part of the test for my daughter. That seems like a lot to ask of a minor. My daughter started TKD when she was 9 years old and has spent a third of her life in training. She's forfeited all other sports, dance, music lessons, and many other extracurricular activities and vacations because we can't afford more than one pursuit for her (and her grades would suffer if she spread herself any thinner). We had been hoping that she could take a break after earning her black belt, so that she could maybe take guitar lessons and confirmation classes and start babysitting--just do some of the things other kids do while she's still a kid. Time is passing so quickly for her. But instead the intensive training process continues, and really there's no end in sight; there's no guarantee of when she'll be ready to earn her black belt (if ever).

I think that somewhere along the line you may have missed the point about what it takes to earn and be a Black Belt. The road does not end when you tie a black piece of cloth around your waist.....you have not reached the end of the journey, only the beginning...dedication and perseverance are what it is all about! If your daughter has not been taught that then the school has let her down. If she has been guided there and not yet grasped it's concept then she is not ready to wear the rank. A personal story here may further clarify this:

I have 2 sons. One started TKD training at the age of seven, the other at six. The older was a natural....everything came easy and he excelled at the technical aspects of the art so much so that he was one of the youngest to ever be promoted to Black Belt within that association. He quit shortly after this-boredom being his biggest complaint...he was not challenged by what he found beyond red belt-more of the same, expectations to improve on what was already learned, blah, blah, blah. His younger brother had the opportunity to exceed his brothers accomplishments by being an even younger Black Belt however he was not able to match his brothers intensity and physical prowess and did not pass his Black Belt test. In fact, he failed 3 more times before he finally passed which meant that he trained the same curriculum for an additional 24 months! He trained, he failed, he cried four times....too much for a 9 year old to bear? Dedication, perseverance, and passion kept him training...qualities that made him into one of the finest young men I know. A young man who went on to achieve his 2nd degree black belt, graduate from high school ahead of his peers (at 16 yoa), is a college graduate, and is now training to become a Martial Arts Instructor for the Marine Corps. He does not have any regrets about his journey and is thankful to his instructors who encouraged him and never gave up on him. It is not about the Belt , it is about the journey!

Right now my daughter seems committed to continuing her private lessons and somewhat committed to continuing to attend classes till she tests again. So I don't think she consciously would let one failed test put her off for life. But she has to fight the attraction of other activities, the fatigue of the chronically sleep-deprived teenager, and the boredom of the too-familiar as the months go by. The lure of the black belt (not a sure bet) may seem less worth striving for on a daily basis; it's hard to sustain enthusiasm indefinitely. As her mother I can "force" her to attend classes (I guess), but I hate to do that, and as she gets older I'm finding that forcing her works less and less well. I try to reserve "forcing" for instances where her health is at stake, or similarly serious situations.

A black belt is not a lure to be dangled in front of students it is a craving thats grows from the inside out. It is a passion that never wanes....an achievement that forever changes you.

If I may say, this experience has totally disillusioned me from striving for a black belt myself. I'm testing this month for my brown belt, and if I am fortunate enough to earn it, I'll be happy with that. I can then learn the rest of the underbelt curriculum, and I'll feel I have achieved almost as much as a black belt. If I were to proceed to the final exam, it would ruin everything for me. The focus shifts to what you can't do, what you're weak at, where you fall short, what you can't take pride in. (I have no illusions about performing flawlessly no matter how long and how hard I train; I'm overweight and in poor health, and though I've come amazingly far since starting 2.5 years ago I'm never going to look like a "black belt.") It's sad for me, because my martial arts pursuits will come to an end soon, but it's the reality of who I am. I'm happy I've achieved what I have; it's more than I ever expected.

It is too bad that you have let this discourage you and that you feel you can settle for brown belt. Not all journeys are smooth sailing...sometimes there are ripples in the water that we encounter and must deal with, sometimes there are storms that blow us off course. If it was easy then everyone would have a Black Belt and it would mean nothing! It is also not about what you look like on the outside but what you look like on the inside that counts. You should take this as an opportunity to connect with your daughter and work physical, mentally, and emotionally towards a shared goal of Black Belt. What an opportunity you have to share in each others journey!

[kingebret]

The goal of an instructor is to give a student the tools to succeed...it is up to the student to use them. We can guide and motivate but we can not "do it for them". You yourself said that she knows the stuff so obviously they have provided adequate instruction in the technical aspects of the art. It is up to her, not you or her instructors, to find it within herself the understanding of what it means to be a Black Belt.

This is where it gets hard for me to understand. My daughter thinks she's doing things correctly (and technically she appears to be doing so), so it's hard for her to "do it on her own" to make the changes that will take her to the next level. This is where she needs the help of her instructors. So when I say I guess I will have to trust that her instructors will help her to "fix" what needs fixing, what I guess I'm saying is that I hope they'll do a better job than they did in the months leading up to the first exam, when they (as they admitted themselves) seemingly didn't accurately assess her readiness to test and didn't see her weaknesses, probably due to bias because they are fond of her and know how far she's come.

I

I think that somewhere along the line you may have missed the point about what it takes to earn and be a Black Belt. The road does not end when you tie a black piece of cloth around your waist.....you have not reached the end of the journey, only the beginning...dedication and perseverance are what it is all about! If your daughter has not been taught that then the school has let her down. If she has been guided there and not yet grasped it's concept then she is not ready to wear the rank. A personal story here may further clarify this:

I have 2 sons. One started TKD training at the age of seven, the other at six. The older was a natural....everything came easy and he excelled at the technical aspects of the art so much so that he was one of the youngest to ever be promoted to Black Belt within that association. He quit shortly after this-boredom being his biggest complaint...he was not challenged by what he found beyond red belt-more of the same, expectations to improve on what was already learned, blah, blah, blah. His younger brother had the opportunity to exceed his brothers accomplishments by being an even younger Black Belt however he was not able to match his brothers intensity and physical prowess and did not pass his Black Belt test. In fact, he failed 3 more times before he finally passed which meant that he trained the same curriculum for an additional 24 months! He trained, he failed, he cried four times....too much for a 9 year old to bear? Dedication, perseverance, and passion kept him training...qualities that made him into one of the finest young men I know. A young man who went on to achieve his 2nd degree black belt, graduate from high school ahead of his peers (at 16 yoa), is a college graduate, and is now training to become a Martial Arts Instructor for the Marine Corps. He does not have any regrets about his journey and is thankful to his instructors who encouraged him and never gave up on him. It is not about the Belt , it is about the journey!

I've heard this saying about the 'journey, not the belt' a number of times. As an adult I understand what's meant (although personally I think it's about both, not just the journey--if the belt meant nothing, then there would be no belt). But I don't think children understand this. Kids need something more tangible. Their grasp of abstracts isn't as good as adults.' And since their concept of the passage of time isn't the same as an adult's, they especially need the colored belts to mark their progression. Just telling them they were on a lifetime journey wouldn't work for a lot of them, IMHO.

A black belt is not a lure to be dangled in front of students it is a craving thats grows from the inside out. It is a passion that never wanes....an achievement that forever changes you.

But if it's a craving, that's different from a journey. And I don't entirely see the distinction between a craving and a lure, myself. A lure is a goal, in another wrapper; it's a matter of semantics. But lures, goals, cravings, things we strive for, things we yearn for--those all seem different to me from a journey.

It is too bad that you have let this discourage you and that you feel you can settle for brown belt. Not all journeys are smooth sailing...sometimes there are ripples in the water that we encounter and must deal with, sometimes there are storms that blow us off course. If it was easy then everyone would have a Black Belt and it would mean nothing! It is also not about what you look like on the outside but what you look like on the inside that counts. You should take this as an opportunity to connect with your daughter and work physical, mentally, and emotionally towards a shared goal of Black Belt. What an opportunity you have to share in each others journey!

I probably wasn't clear. When I said I would never look like a black belt, I didn't mean in terms of body shape or profile. I mean it more generally. In class I get short of breath extremely quickly and get overheated just as fast. The lack of endurance hasn't gotten any better in the 2.5 years I've been training. I can't perform to the fullest because of the exhaustion. I'm sure it's largely due to the extra 40 pounds on my small frame, along with health issues. It's unlikely any of those will change, much as I'd like them to--autoimmune problems present some limits. It's been great being able to share in my daughter's pursuit of martial arts for this long, and I'll keep it up for as long as I can. But I can foresee hitting the wall before too long. Realistically in my condition I'd never pass a black belt exam, and I don't think I will want to practice the same forms and combinations for the rest of my life--just think of never learning anything new. I'd rather pursue a new sport or other interest if that's the case. I'm nearly 50; I'm feeling old enough that what's left of my life is starting to seem especially precious to me. I guess that's mortality.

People keep telling me that getting a black belt isn't easy, and that if it was easy everyone would have one and they would mean nothing. I never said it was easy! No one who's taken more than a month of martial arts classes would be under the illusion that it's easy. I'm well aware of how difficult it is. It's just that now I'm seeing that for some people it's impossible. That's discouraging. And for others it requires more than they can give, which is almost as discouraging. To expect a child to make a lifetime commitment to TKD is, IMO, too much to ask. (And yet people criticize me for wanting to allow my daughter to take "a break" after attaining her black belt, if she ever gets it.)

Sorry to go on and on, but I'm trying to figure out how to frame all of this and keep at least a neutral face in front of my daughter so I don't influence her. Thanks.

[BMW]

I hope the judges aren't looking for "dedication and perseverance," and that failing isn't part of the test for my daughter. That seems like a lot to ask of a minor. My daughter started TKD when she was 9 years old and has spent a third of her life in training. She's forfeited all other sports, dance, music lessons, and many other extracurricular activities and vacations because we can't afford more than one pursuit for her (and her grades would suffer if she spread herself any thinner). We had been hoping that she could take a break after earning her black belt, so that she could maybe take guitar lessons and confirmation classes and start babysitting--just do some of the things other kids do while she's still a kid. Time is passing so quickly for her. But instead the intensive training process continues, and really there's no end in sight; there's no guarantee of when she'll be ready to earn her black belt (if ever).

Kingebret,

I liked what ninjanurse has to say about dedication and perseverance. I also like what her and another member said about the "journey" to and after black belt.

Kingebret, I think you are right that children, in general, do not have the life experience to really appreciate the merits in such abstract thoughts as "journey" over "failure."

I feel real bad for your daughter not passing her test. She should feel very proud and good about herself though. She is 13 and has taken a lesser chosen road - most humans male or female will never put in years of training in the martial arts.

I consider myself still a novice in every level of training (well... because I am ) so I'm crossed on how to view this whole testing by panel thing your daughter has to go through. Part of my novice experience is in boxing, and it has had a significant shaping on certain aspects of how I think. In the boxing world coaches are very tuned into their novice pugilist psychological strengths and weaknesses and are very protective of their novice fighters egos.

What bothers me about this system of judges by panels is not its structure in and of itself - I mean it would be one thing if it was a tournament - but it bothers me that effectively the kids fill they do not "graduate" with the rest of their "class." This can result in a kids feeling like they're lower on the food chain, not "good enough" *like the others in their class.* It seems to me it would be easier for a kid to recover from going into a sparring tournament and getting popped good numerous times. Even if this Olympic judging and a kid lost, in my mind that would be easier than the feeling that comes with "not graduating with the others."

Personally, coming from my novice boxing experience, I would not put a fighter of mine through anything I felt they were not ready for and would be psychologically crushed by from end results.

Maybe I'm wrong on some of this and maybe these kind of panels can actually build better character in a young student/child. I don't know everything.

[kingebret]

What bothers me about this system of judges by panels is not its structure in and of itself - I mean it would be one thing if it was a tournament - but it bothers me that effectively the kids fill they do not "graduate" with the rest of their "class." This can result in a kids feeling like they're lower on the food chain, not "good enough" *like the others in their class.* It seems to me it would be easier for a kid to recover from going into a sparring tournament and getting popped good numerous times. Even if this Olympic judging and a kid lost, in my mind that would be easier than the feeling that comes with "not graduating with the others."

Personally, coming from my novice boxing experience, I would not put a fighter of mine through anything I felt they were not ready for and would be psychologically crushed by from end results.

Maybe I'm wrong on some of this and maybe these kind of panels can actually build better character in a young student/child. I don't know everything.

Thanks for your response, BMW. I think you hit on a very important point. Ten kids from my daughter's class tested together. They'd worked intensively for months (having been split aside from the rest of their advanced class), done several "boot camps" together, taken (and passed) the pre-test together (without which they would not have been allowed to take the final exam), and taken the final exam together. They were like family. It was hard for *everyone* when two students did not pass. The failing students and parents were devastated; their instructors were devastated; the students who *did* pass were devastated. They felt really bad for their friends; some were nearly in tears, while others were just bewildered. (We had planned to celebrate with one family right afterward; of course, that didn't happen--my daughter was too shook-up and wanted to go home, and so did I. The other failing student wasn't so lucky; he was forced to go out and "celebrate" because his mother had also tested that day--and she had passed--and they had out-of-state relatives who had come to watch the exam and have dinner out with them.) Parents of other students had tears in their eyes too. And instead of the successful students being awarded their belts at the end of the test, they were just sent home (out of courtesy for the students who had not passed--there were others besides the two at our school).

Our studios generally do *not* send kids to black belt testing until they are confident that the kids are ready to pass. Our school holds pre-tests for that reason. But we can't control the voting of the other judges on the panel, and in this case I guess that some of the other judges didn't agree that two of our students were ready to pass. (I guess the same thing happened with some of the students from the other schools.)

As you said, my daughter would have preferred to have gone to a tournament and gotten "popped" repeatedly, or been scored in an Olympic competition, rather than failed among her peers and never told why. The subjectivity of the judging, combined with the secrecy of the results, make a failure harder for a young person to understand, especially when it comes in a group testing setting with peers with whom you have become a very tight unit.

Thanks again for sharing your thoughts.

[ninjanurse]

But if it's a craving, that's different from a journey. And I don't entirely see the distinction between a craving and a lure, myself. A lure is a goal, in another wrapper; it's a matter of semantics. But lures, goals, cravings, things we strive for, things we yearn for--those all seem different to me from a journey.

Semantics aside, a journey can take a lifetime and is full of ups, downs, twists, and turns that make it all the more fulfilling when we finally reach our destination. It's what makes it all worth it!

People keep telling me that getting a black belt isn't easy, and that if it was easy everyone would have one and they would mean nothing. I never said it was easy! No one who's taken more than a month of martial arts classes would be under the illusion that it's easy. I'm well aware of how difficult it is.

It is a shame that your daughter did not pass after all the pre-testing, etc., and you are correct in that the burden of that should fall partially on the instructors but you cannot blame the panel or system of judging as the process is intended to be impartial and as I said before, more than just technique is evaluated.

It is true that not every student that strives for a Black Belt will achieve it. There is more to it than just physical skills and "being in shape"...and the standards should not change especially because someone is only a child-all the more important that they understand the meaning behind it as the rank comes with a great deal of responsibility! I think people do not give kids enough credit these days and spend a lot of time protecting them from disappointments and failures so they don't have to feel bad. What we learn from our struggles prepares us to deal with life, builds our characters, makes us stronger. Maslow's Hierarchy is in play throughout our lives and especially throughout a martial artists journey to Black Belt-we are all in a different place but that does not mean that we cannot move towards self-actualization and some reach it before others regardless of their age!

But I can foresee hitting the wall before too long. Realistically in my condition I'd never pass a black belt exam, and I don't think I will want to practice the same forms and combinations for the rest of my life--just think of never learning anything new.

If your school teaches nothing past 1st Degree Black Belt then I suggest that you and your daughter investigate another system as this is NOT and should NEVER be the case! There is so much more to learn that you could never learn it all in a lifetime!!! I have been at this for 30 years and am still learning all the time. New forms, new techniques, new combinations, new challenges.....it never ends.

I'm nearly 50; I'm feeling old enough that what's left of my life is starting to seem especially precious to me. I guess that's mortality.

All the more reason to continue your journey-whatever your physical condition. The mental and spiritual benefits far outweigh what you can do physically.

[kingebret]

Ninjnurse said:

I think people do not give kids enough credit these days and spend a lot of time protecting them from disappointments and failures so they don't have to feel bad. What we learn from our struggles prepares us to deal with life, builds our characters, makes us stronger. Maslow's Hierarchy is in play throughout our lives and especially throughout a martial artists journey to Black Belt-we are all in a different place but that does not mean that we cannot move towards self-actualization and some reach it before others regardless of their age!

You may be right, in general, about people/parents being overprotective and shielding kids from disappointments and failures. There's been a lot written in the media about this--they call them "helicopter parents" (hovering too much). It gets ridiculous, continuing even when the kids are in college and calling Mom and Dad on the cell phone all the time to talk about "unfair" grades they received (!). (Grades that the student received, not the parent, that is.)

However, we sure haven't shielded our daughter. She lost her only sibling 5 years ago, when he was 5 months old and passed away suddenly and unexpectedly from SIDS. A 9-year-old is too old to be oblivious to that, and is very aware of what happened and the effect it has on her family. We enrolled our daughter in TKD 6 months after our son's death, hoping it would be a healing thing for her (and, largely, I think it has been); I miscarried a month after she started TKD. That was the end of our hopes to have another child. (My daughter was, again, aware of the miscarriage--there was no way to hide it.) So, I think it's safe to say we haven't been one of the overly shielding families. Maybe because our daughter has had more than her share of hard knocks already, I try to be aware of when a huge hurt might be looming and do my best to prepare her or help her do what she can to mitigate it while there's still time. In this case I failed. I was blindsided just as much as my daughter was. (Yes, I already know that "you can't shield them from everything," but this particular disappointment was in the category of something I thought I could shield her from or lessen the blow of, by paying careful attention and making sure I understood whether her studio felt she was ready to test.]

Kingebret said:

But I can foresee hitting the wall before too long. Realistically in my condition I'd never pass a black belt exam, and I don't think I will want to practice the same forms and combinations for the rest of my life--just think of never learning anything new.

Ninjanurse said:

If your school teaches nothing past 1st Degree Black Belt then I suggest that you and your daughter investigate another system as this is NOT and should NEVER be the case! There is so much more to learn that you could never learn it all in a lifetime!!! I have been at this for 30 years and am still learning all the time. New forms, new techniques, new combinations, new challenges.....it never ends.

Our studio does teach curriculum beyond 1st degree. But since I realize I won't earn my black belt, I can see that I'm going to be stuck at brown or novice black level indefinitely. I can't see how the instructors could teach me the advanced forms and other material if I haven't earned the advanced belt; it wouldn't be right.

Kingebret said:

I'm nearly 50; I'm feeling old enough that what's left of my life is starting to seem especially precious to me. I guess that's mortality.

Ninjanurse said:

All the more reason to continue your journey-whatever your physical condition. The mental and spiritual benefits far outweigh what you can do physically.

That makes sense to me. The part of TKD I have liked best is accomplishing things, improving at things. There's been a lot of joy for me. But I can see that joy disappearing as I approach black belt. The focus is shifting from what I can do to what I can't do. I'm embarrassed that I can't do better and feel like I ought to apologize that I'm not getting into better condition as I proceed. But this is who I am and these are the limitations of my body. Sometimes I think that people who are fit can't understand why those who aren't fit can't do some things, or find them much harder. Unless you've had to do it yourself, you really can't imagine it. Anyway, it would be nice to have a sport I could continue, where the joy and pride and new challenges would continue too. Maybe I'll find it.

[DWx]

Our studio does teach curriculum beyond 1st degree. But since I realize I won't earn my black belt, I can see that I'm going to be stuck at brown or novice black level indefinitely. I can't see how the instructors could teach me the advanced forms and other material if I haven't earned the advanced belt; it wouldn't be right.

I think that if you have the mentality that you will won't ever attain your blackbelt, then you won't. It appears you lack confidence in yourself or abilities and I think that is probably the only thing stopping you from gaining the degree, no matter how much you think your body isn't up to scratch.

That makes sense to me. The part of TKD I have liked best is accomplishing things, improving at things. There's been a lot of joy for me. But I can see that joy disappearing as I approach black belt. The focus is shifting from what I can do to what I can't do. I'm embarrassed that I can't do better and feel like I ought to apologize that I'm not getting into better condition as I proceed. But this is who I am and these are the limitations of my body. Sometimes I think that people who are fit can't understand why those who aren't fit can't do some things, or find them much harder. Unless you've had to do it yourself, you really can't imagine it. Anyway, it would be nice to have a sport I could continue, where the joy and pride and new challenges would continue too. Maybe I'll find it.

Let me just say that I am unfit, I know this. I'm overweight for my age and have a defect where my shins and ankles are not formed at the correct angles leading to me being naturally duckfooted. So what? I don't let all this bother me. I just try to use what I've got and work to improve it. When I joined the cardio, fitness & sparring class at my dojang, I was always last to finish, couldn't do half the exercises and was out of breath and sweating after the warm up. If you don't push yourself to improve then you will never improve. Its all very well saying that fit people can't understand why its so hard but have you done anything to take yourself out of the unfit category? And if its much harder for you to do something you should take greater pride in being able to achieve that something. Some people can drop into the splits naturally, its no big deal to them, but if i takes several years intensive work for you to achieve that then you have something great to be proud of.

[BMW]

That makes sense to me. The part of TKD I have liked best is accomplishing things, improving at things. There's been a lot of joy for me. But I can see that joy disappearing as I approach black belt. The focus is shifting from what I can do to what I can't do. I'm embarrassed that I can't do better and feel like I ought to apologize that I'm not getting into better condition as I proceed. But this is who I am and these are the limitations of my body. Sometimes I think that people who are fit can't understand why those who aren't fit can't do some things, or find them much harder. Unless you've had to do it yourself, you really can't imagine it. Anyway, it would be nice to have a sport I could continue, where the joy and pride and new challenges would continue too. Maybe I'll find it.

Kingebret,

Looking at what overwieght people have to go through in life (verbal and social abuse) I've been very blessed that I have never been overweight in my life. Although, I've been the reverse, the small male who could never gain much weight - skinny and short.

I'm older now and my body and height are more proportionate to a the ideals of a "males" against a females. I'm still not very large in weight but my height, although considered short by U.S. male averages, is good enough to make me a little taller or at least ast tall as most adult women.

When I entered freshmen year of high school I weighed under 90 lbs.

Believe it or not, the human body can be shaped. My physique in general today, would be considsered pretty good. Up against most men of my same age range it would be considered above average. However, there are men my age and much older that have better physical builds than me, primarily due to both the amount of effort they put in and as well the level of intelligence they have in shaping a good work out program for themselves.

Each person has some physical limitations. Why could Bruce Lee kick and punch so hard relation to his small physical stature? I'll probably never know and it may be years before science can ever definitively answer that. Nonetheless, we all can *improve,* given enough time and *money.* I say money because to dramatically reshape the body it can sometimes require a lot of money through changed diets and even probably by retaining a trainer.

For me, for my goals, I will not need major money nor even lots of fancy equipment. But that is just me. For someone else it might be different.

I know what you mean about the feeling of embarrasment (sp?) too. I have certain strengths in boxing and certain weaknesses. I'm not very good at working combinations. So, working the mitts with a trainer can be a time of some fear - and the coaches are not so "gentle" about your mistakes. I really have the element of fear and shame when it comes to some of the training at my martial arts school. From the Thai boxing, to the stick work, to the capoeira. Some of this is very new body mechanics for me. And OH MY GOD don't talk about the capoeira. You have never seen such a pathetic, stiff, creature attempt such moves. But I have made some small improvements in all of these arts. Of course, I may reach a certain talent or physical limit in any of them - especially the capoeira.

So, I don't know... I guess we just try and try and try. I don't know what else we can do? [shrug]

If you're no longer happy with training you may need to stop for your own sanity and health though. My first boxing coach and gym I had to leave. We had problem on a couple of levels. First, he would hollar at you like you were a child, secondly, he seemed to develop an attitude because I would not declare boxing as my primary pursuit in life: meaning dreams of going pro and seeking money and fame. And I was only training at this place for a few months.