Demanding Respect from other MAs a defeatist attitude?

[bushido_man96]

I've generally found that the more they demand respect, the less they deserve it. That goes for any martial arts instructor, TKD or otherwise.

I agree. When I bow, I don't even really think of it as respectful; just more like a handshake. One thing that I can't stand is when someone expects you to bow, and if you don't, they get all red-faced, and then want to attempt to make you bow, somehow.

[YoungMan]

Even my Instructor, as long as he has practiced and as advanced a Dan as he holds, does not demand or expect people to respect him. He expects them to follow Tae Kwon Do custom and etiquette (he is old school Korean-American), but he does not demand or expect people to respect or follow him.

Contrast that with many American Instructors on ego trips who demand almost to be treated as a demi-god due to the belt they wear around their waist.

[The BB of C]

I believe a good martial artist is humble, respects himself, others (reguardless of style and rank), continuously works hard to improve themselves in their field, is open minded about techniques, and is effective at his techniques.

This is exactly what I'm getting at. Martial arts, at their core, are about being able to defend yourself. Having respect for oneself or others does not dictate how skilled or good one is at martial artist or not.

Now if you were to say, "I believe a good human being is. . .", that would something I completely agree with.

I understand.

Even my Instructor, as long as he has practiced and as advanced a Dan as he holds, does not demand or expect people to respect him. He expects them to follow Tae Kwon Do custom and etiquette (he is old school Korean-American), but he does not demand or expect people to respect or follow him.

Contrast that with many American Instructors on ego trips who demand almost to be treated as a demi-god due to the belt they wear around their waist.

Oh dear Lord! I know two instructors like that. Both 6th degree black belts in their style. They make me want to get better than them just so I can kick the crap out of them sometimes. I'm not exaggerating. This is what one of them said to me:

"You need to put this patch on your gi because I'm a 6th degree black belt. Isshin Ryu is my life's passion and I've been doing it for 30 years..."

[dete]

hello people,

1st post!

I think respect takes a keen eye, and most people do not have one.

I remember this guy after I kindly invited him to workout with us (Aikido), he said to my face, that martial arts was bullcrud and does not work. And we the practitioners are idiots. He told me he had a knife in his back pack that would take care of any martial artist. I stood right next him, right besides his back pack, ready for him to go for his knife. I was just dying to show him that my knife skills developed from a martial art (Arnis) was better than his knife skills

I wanted to earn his respect.

I guess the same way some of the Gracies opted to do by their challenge matches.

After I said some derogatory things to him (I'm not proud of this) he chickened out. Btw, This happened over 10 years ago.

[bushido_man96]

I don't necessarily respect them as people or martial artists, but I will respect them as one martial artist to another.

In this case, I would not necessarily respect them, if I didn't feel that they deserve it, no matter their rank. However, because of the "necessities" that the practice of Eastern Martial Arts usually dictates that you bow to higher ranks, then I would most likely do so, but only if I absolutely had to. Even then, however, it would not be out of respect. If I am at a tournament or some large gathering, with lots of black belts, I don't spend a lot of time just bowing at every high rank that I see or that walks by me.

Even my Instructor, as long as he has practiced and as advanced a Dan as he holds, does not demand or expect people to respect him. He expects them to follow Tae Kwon Do custom and etiquette (he is old school Korean-American), but he does not demand or expect people to respect or follow him.

Contrast that with many American Instructors on ego trips who demand almost to be treated as a demi-god due to the belt they wear around their waist.

Agree. Basically my sentiments above.

[bushido_man96]

...I was just dying to show him that my knife skills developed from a martial art (Arnis) was better than his knife skills

I wanted to earn his respect.

I guess the same way some of the Gracies opted to do by their challenge matches.

I don't think that the Gracies were trying to earn respect that way. I think that they just wanted to prove a point with their system, and they did that. In the process, their attitude that they would play in anyone's house ended up earning respect for them. They didn't say "respect me," they said "fight us, then say and do what you will."

Welcome to the Forums!

[YoungMan]

I will not necessarily respect another martial artist, even one (supposedly) higher ranking than me, but I will be courteous to them. This is a simple act of civility. Even my Instructor has told me there are plenty of martial arts coleagues he has no repsect for, but he will always be courteous to as required by Tae Kwon Do etiquette.

[ninjanurse]

I will not necessarily respect another martial artist, even one (supposedly) higher ranking than me, but I will be courteous to them. This is a simple act of civility. Even my Instructor has told me there are plenty of martial arts coleagues he has no repsect for, but he will always be courteous to as required by Tae Kwon Do etiquette.

I share these sentiments.

[dete]

the idea of demanding itself is already flawed I think.

also trying to convinve people of their opinions.

Either they listen or they do not, if you force, this is how fights, wars begin.

[ironsifu]

hi

i believe respect in the martial arts, like many things martial artists talk about, is for looks only. like the "tenets of tae kwon do" and martial arts creeds and stuff like that, nonviolence and everything. one time a friend of mine who is a school owner, said, martial arts is not about fighting. oh yeah? since when?

all of that is image. we have to looked like a shaolin monk or something. this is the thing that makes a martial artist, criticised a NHB fighter, or a very confident martial arts master, remember, we are supposed to be humble. or not? no we are fighters. maybe some guys want to be school teachers, promising good grades and all. but if you want your kids to never be picked on again, he doesnt go to the math tutor, he comes to me.

my point of this is, respect in the martial arts comes in three forms only. one is celebrity. he is famous, so you show him respect. a very popular master or martial artist, is love by many people, you cant say bad things about him, not even to say, his art is weak. this is why many martial arts teachers like to make websites, write magazines, and put out video. you know, like what do you mean he's no good? hes in all those books! put it in writing enough times, people will believe you. this is why ashida kim is known as a ninja master, even thow he's and old white guy from florida with a tae kwon do learning.

second, is age and rank. look at the creator of some styles of martial arts, do you think you can beat this old man? maybe. but you respect him because he is old, he paid his dues, he deserved it, even when he might not been the best of all time. he is our hero when we were younger.

the last is, fighting skill. when a martial artists can fight, everybody respect him. even you might not like this guy, but he has what everybody wants, skill. plus, he going to kick your sorryif you challenged him. so people will at least bite there tongue when he is in the room, call him jerk when you get home on the computer. skill, i think is the best and highest form of respect. it is the only TRUE respect in the martial arts. how many times you saw people vouch for another one, because that is his friend. you see it all the time with masters, they talk good about another master, because he knows him. but the respect of a teacher who is good fighter, everyone will think well of him.

but you can respect the man, respect the rank, but still you dont think his art is good. i think this is what they call, diplomat. see you cant walk around in this country saying another guy's kung fu sucks. but you have to find a *nice* way to say, i cant speak for his art, but he's a good man. as a teacher its one of the hardest things, especially if you are a school owner, especially if you need other people for paying your bills.