Value of grappling arts for self defense?

[anewsome]

What an interesting topic! Can you elaborate why you think this way?

[ps1]

What an interesting topic! Can you elaborate why you think this way?

Why who thinks what way? Was there a specific person you're addressing?

Welcome to the forums by the way

[marksmarkou]

If your fighting one on one without weapons, then strikes, floor grappling, submissions etc can all be used. However in todays society, you rarely fight one on one and if it happens, it wont be long untill his/her freind comes behind you and causes damage. For that reason i would not bother with trying to take the fight to the floor, trying for submissions etc. Strikes are number one. Hard strikes to areas used for knock out. (chin temple etc)

Having said that, some grappling knowledge is needed. Throws where you remain standing is helpfull. Clinch work and also knoweldge of how NOT to be taken down to the floor is vital. For this reason practising throws and defending from throws takedowns should be carried out.

[JusticeZero]

If everyone in the area is your ally, grappling is good. If the people in the vicinity are neutral or worse, grappling is a foolish idea. It is nonetheless useful to know so that you will know how to counter it and escape from grappling attempts by people who DO have allies in the vicinity. The defense against grappling is "know grappling and use the skills to disarm and escape the grapple attacks".

Edited February 16, 2009 by JusticeZero

[the beast]

If your fighting one on one without weapons, then strikes, floor grappling, submissions etc can all be used. However in todays society, you rarely fight one on one and if it happens, it wont be long untill his/her freind comes behind you and causes damage. For that reason i would not bother with trying to take the fight to the floor, trying for submissions etc. Strikes are number one. Hard strikes to areas used for knock out. (chin temple etc)

Having said that, some grappling knowledge is needed. Throws where you remain standing is helpfull. Clinch work and also knoweldge of how NOT to be taken down to the floor is vital. For this reason practising throws and defending from throws takedowns should be carried out.

I couldn't agree more. Like I tell the students at our dojo who love to grapple, going to the ground may be good for the cage,or anywhere that rules are in place but on the street they will get your head stomped in .

I think throws, clinch work , and takedown defense is are very important also, but being on the ground is the last place you want to be in a self defense situation.

[tallgeese]

And yet you might end up there anyway.

Yeah, it's less than ideal for sure. But to really be versed in that range of combat you have to train it completely, not just the above mentioned componants.

Probibly the most common ma-ist out there is the guy who was a high school wrestler. This dude, if he's in his early to mid 20's (which if he's putting himself in a position where you have to defend yourself agasit him statistics say is likley) still has some decent skills and conditioning. Now this wrestler can probibly dump most stand up martial artist right to the ground unless they trained a bit at what you've stated. Now, lets say he beat their sprawl. Now what?

Now, you've got to rely on the rest of those ground skills, pulling to guard, initiating an offense, sweeps, ect. All while not getting punded on by this bruiser who now has great position. And, you're going to need to do this before he has friends jump and help curb stomp you or at least minimize the damage they will inflict as they do so.

As a side note- this is why mulitple oppononat sparring should also allow for someone getting dumped, to practice inhigh stress for such an occurance. Also, training drills should be conducted to help train this. For instance- start a round of ground-n-pound (3 min), now, have a second individual join the fray from standing. This kind of controlled "end in sight" trining will help prepare and teach tactics to everyone regarding this possibility.

So back to my example. Now you're in a ground fight, with a skilled baddie on top of you who can probilby hold position pretty well. This is a bad time to not have spend good time training on the ground.

I'm not disagreeing that it's better to remain up in sd situations. I think I've said as much ealier in this thread. I'm just saying that it takes more than working limited ground applications occassaionally to really prepare ones self for this very real possiblity.

[the beast]

Now, you've got to rely on the rest of those ground skills, pulling to guard, initiating an offense, sweeps, ect. All while not getting punded on by this bruiser who now has great position. And, you're going to need to do this before he has friends jump and help curb stomp you or at least minimize the damage they will inflict as they do so.

So back to my example. Now you're in a ground fight, with a skilled baddie on top of you who can probilby hold position pretty well. This is a bad time to not have spend good time training on the ground.

I'm not disagreeing that it's better to remain up in sd situations. I think I've said as much ealier in this thread. I'm just saying that it takes more than working limited ground applications occassaionally to really prepare ones self for this very real possiblity.

I'm just saying that I don't think you would have much time to try for submissions, so even if it does get to the ground you should know how to strike effectively from any position. If you do get an arm bar or whatever hold on the guy, if he taps don't let go.

I read a story a while back about a BJJ practitioner at a tournament who was challenged outside afterwards by some thug. The BJJ guy got a hold on the thug, the thug tapped and because of his training the BJJ guy let go of the hold, the thug got up and stabbed him repeatedly.

[Traymond]

In my opinion, grappling arts allow you to be able to move around your opponent better, it teaches you to be flexible.

[tallgeese]

It's hard to know what you will and won't have time for in a fight. It's too fluid a monster to have such set parameters.

You've mentioned a good point for training mindset across whatever ranges you're training in. It's no use paying to get on the bus and then not riding it. If you can get to that superior position, break the sucker, that's why we tap when we train, so things don't break. Or, work for a choke which is easier to extricate yourself fromafter sucessfully applying it. Better yet, sweep to positon, pound him into submission and get away.

In any case, all of this is easier if you spend a good amount of time training your ground game completely. Let's not forget the difference between competivite mindset and combative mindset ever. But a lack of combative mindset conditioning and acceptacne could lead to one ending up in a bad spot regardless of their style, standing or grappling, or any combination or permutation of both.

[bushido_man96]

Probibly the most common ma-ist out there is the guy who was a high school wrestler. This dude, if he's in his early to mid 20's (which if he's putting himself in a position where you have to defend yourself agasit him statistics say is likley) still has some decent skills and conditioning. Now this wrestler can probibly dump most stand up martial artist right to the ground unless they trained a bit at what you've stated. Now, lets say he beat their sprawl. Now what?

I agree here. There are tons of guys around my area that have Wrestled, and still do Wrestle. Our local university also has a pretty good Wrestling team, that is usually nationally ranked in the NCAA Divsion II. So, there are some pretty nasty dudes walking around, usually. The nice thing is, from what I've seen, is that the Wrestlers tend to do a pretty good job of staying out of trouble, for the most part.

And I truly believe that the conditioning sticks with an individual, for some time. I'm sure that they are not in the same kind of shape that they competed in, but they do retain some of it. My younger brother is a good example of this; he played NAIA level football in college. He is still quite a bit stronger than I am, and I lift regularly. He hasn't for quite some time. He can also outrun me still, even though he might be carrying an extra 10 pounds. Yes, you do lose these things over time, but they stick around longer than one might think, too.